dapoes
Veteran
- May 17, 2008
- 3,543
- 2,716
2008 Flight Attendant Average Wage only comparison!
- Thread starter jalbalpa
- Start date
2BlacknBlue
Senior
- Oct 4, 2007
- 327
- 47
- Thread Starter
- #63
Once again Dapoes, backed up into a corner and you respond with nothing constructive...
This is what you do best, change subjects, provide no evidence of anything you say, and when all else fails...you start with the name calling.
Thankfully most people are able to see right thru your distortion.
This is what you do best, change subjects, provide no evidence of anything you say, and when all else fails...you start with the name calling.
Thankfully most people are able to see right thru your distortion.
- Thread Starter
- #64
If its in a contract its not hope, its in black and white.
What is false hope is managements promise...
"Man, I hope they keep their promise"
My grandfather once told me,
"Hold your hands out. Sh!t in one and hope in the other, tell me which one fills up first!"
Then you change insurance companies to a better one. (NW f/a's have done it before and if AFA doesn't produce, they have the leadership and skill set to do it again.)
But I still don't want to go without it.
dapoes
Veteran
- May 17, 2008
- 3,543
- 2,716
And the same could be said for you sweetie.
We get it, you hate DAL... so much you go out of your way to provide flawed data to (hopefully) reinforce your pathetic feeble attempts. Just like the other DAL dumpers here, the only things they have to say is anything trumped up or disparaging about DAL.
- Thread Starter
- #67
I don't recall dumping on Delta. I have been very vocal about Delta's management team, which is the ex NW management team.
Can you please refresh my memory where I have dumped on Delta? Or where others have dumped on Delta.
Please enlighten me.
Can you please refresh my memory where I have dumped on Delta? Or where others have dumped on Delta.
Please enlighten me.
NOW, we finally get to the root of it all.
Let me tell you something, Dapoes...and I can only speak for myself. I do NOT hate Delta. I CARE about Delta and I want to make it better and better...for the customer and FOR THE EMPLOYEES. Just because my idea of doing that is different from yours does NOT mean I'm a Delta "hater", "basher" or whatever other term you want to throw around. If I remember correctly, you are Republican (or at least anti-Obama) and I can see this. Many Republican talking heads over the years are the ones who always say that liberals/progressives/Democrats "hate America" because they disagree with them. This is where you get your line of thinking from...right out of Sean Hannity's and Rush Limbaugh's shows. Well, I can see through your flawed thinking and the likes of you are NOT going to hijack my country or MY airline. I've been here 3x as long as you have. I know this company in and out...it's good points and its bad. I contributed to Project767....where were you? In diapers. HOW DARE YOU accuse people and judge their motivations?
Many people use a sports team, actor, rock star or a company/entity(Delta in this case) as a substitution for other things missing in their lives. Maybe this is what you're doing. Don't LOVE a thing. LOVE people. Companies come and go. Family and friends are what count. Don't judge people's worth by what they do for a living or who they work for.
Passion is great. But like everything in life, it's best to check-in once in a while and make sure it isn't too unbridled or angled in the wrong way.
Just some things to think about.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
Fine - give us the page number from any of the 1st 3 quarters of 10-Q where wage data is reported at all, much less for any particular employee group.
And therein lies the logical fallacy - using updated 2008 employee numbers but using 2007 cost data. To get your conclusion requires the assumption that the additional employees in 2008 do not increase the cost in 2008, i.e. more people working for the same total cost equals less pay for the average individual in the group.
I don't give a plugged nickel about union vs non-union (although I've posted that I wouldn't want to work in this industry without union representation) or who makes the most. My point is purely the logical fallacy you used to draw your conclusion. The computer nerd's GIGO - garbage in, garbage out.
Jim
I do not necessarily agree, but I do feel that person may have at least an idea of what they are referring to, but since I do not have data from both groups...sitting in front of me...I cannot determine if it is actually fact, but of course as mentioned give anyone the benefit of the doubt.
the post must be at least believable within a set of expectations, I believe it may be true, but then do not know that for an absolute fact, but knowing my group I generally expect them at minimum..to tell it like it is and I expect that may be the case here..
I am not bothered at all, I simply like to share what is on my mind and also enjoying reading different opinions, if it is taken as defensive well that is up to the individual reader.. as I honestly try to see both sides for what its worth, just as an aside, I will always 100 percent back a Flight Attendant, any Flight Attendant.
just a suggestion, if you would spend a little more time explaining your reasons, you may find that others may actually pay attention, really pay attention even if they do not agree.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
Dignity,
Let me set up a situation - you own a business with 3 managers. In 2007 you paid the managers a total of $150K and an average of $50K each. In 2008, you open an additional location, hiring 3 more managers. You don't know the total paid to your 6 managers yet, so you just assume it's the same as 2007 - $150K. However, you do know that you have 6 managers in 2008, so you divide the $150K (paid to 3 managers) by 6 (the number of managers you actually have at the end of 2008) and come up with $25K in average annual pay.
Now, the number of managers at the end of 2008 is a known fact. So is the total paid to managers in 2007. Does that mean the 2008 average pay figure correct?
Jim
Let me set up a situation - you own a business with 3 managers. In 2007 you paid the managers a total of $150K and an average of $50K each. In 2008, you open an additional location, hiring 3 more managers. You don't know the total paid to your 6 managers yet, so you just assume it's the same as 2007 - $150K. However, you do know that you have 6 managers in 2008, so you divide the $150K (paid to 3 managers) by 6 (the number of managers you actually have at the end of 2008) and come up with $25K in average annual pay.
Now, the number of managers at the end of 2008 is a known fact. So is the total paid to managers in 2007. Does that mean the 2008 average pay figure correct?
Jim
well since I believe somehow, someway, this "scenario" is directly related to the topic at hand, I may not be able to satisfy your request (at this time)...as you see, just the same with the current scenario and of course your scenario, there is something missing, that is the numbers..sitting directly in front of me...the numbers Jim, the raw numbers, the d-a-t-a... Jim...the data..gotta..have those numbers.
I would like to offer an amend to that "situation" in a more realistic scenario..
replacing "you" with ..."they"
"they" have a business...and
currently there are three managers at one location making a total of one hundred fifty thousand. a new! location is planned and will need to be staffed. because of the....
"current climate changes and potential for global warming and the projection will be certainly.. more people will stay at home and not visit our new locations as often as the current"...(or whatever line "they" can come up with that might stick...)
it will be necessary to wish one manager ..
"thank you for your dedication, we wish you well in your future endeavors"..."you do recall where the front door is right?"..."buh bye now"..."have a nice day".
instead of hiring three additional managers at the new! location(for a proposed total of six...Ha! like thats happening Pffffffffffft!....six.."they" work more with less around this sweat shop..), now they currently have two(the need to adjust staffing you see..), one manager will be assigned to the current location, one manager will be assigned to the new! location, instantly realizing a fifty thousand cost savings right from the start! woot woot!
once each manager is in place, again cut the fifty thousand dollar salary in half to twenty five thousand each and then...offer the opportunity to make the previous twenty five thousand based on actual performance...again potentially realizing another fifty thousand dollar savings! woot woot woot!
now if one of the two ever become a little "mouthy" about the situation they always will offer a suggestion/reminder that..
#1 you do not have anything in writing
#2 you can be replaced (and of course that may actually happen anyway...)
#3 you should be happy you have a job
so...instead paying out an initial one hundred fifty thousand, now only fifty thousand is actually the number(divided by two...twenty five thousand each) and then of course they will come up with some excuse...why the rest is not able to be paid out at this time.
while failing to actually offer reminder #4 (the rest of the loot left over is actually going to the boss..regardless..) bwhahahahaha...
or something sorta along those lines...ya know?
I would like to offer an amend to that "situation" in a more realistic scenario..
replacing "you" with ..."they"
"they" have a business...and
currently there are three managers at one location making a total of one hundred fifty thousand. a new! location is planned and will need to be staffed. because of the....
"current climate changes and potential for global warming and the projection will be certainly.. more people will stay at home and not visit our new locations as often as the current"...(or whatever line "they" can come up with that might stick...)
it will be necessary to wish one manager ..
"thank you for your dedication, we wish you well in your future endeavors"..."you do recall where the front door is right?"..."buh bye now"..."have a nice day".
instead of hiring three additional managers at the new! location(for a proposed total of six...Ha! like thats happening Pffffffffffft!....six.."they" work more with less around this sweat shop..), now they currently have two(the need to adjust staffing you see..), one manager will be assigned to the current location, one manager will be assigned to the new! location, instantly realizing a fifty thousand cost savings right from the start! woot woot!
once each manager is in place, again cut the fifty thousand dollar salary in half to twenty five thousand each and then...offer the opportunity to make the previous twenty five thousand based on actual performance...again potentially realizing another fifty thousand dollar savings! woot woot woot!
now if one of the two ever become a little "mouthy" about the situation they always will offer a suggestion/reminder that..
#1 you do not have anything in writing
#2 you can be replaced (and of course that may actually happen anyway...)
#3 you should be happy you have a job
so...instead paying out an initial one hundred fifty thousand, now only fifty thousand is actually the number(divided by two...twenty five thousand each) and then of course they will come up with some excuse...why the rest is not able to be paid out at this time.
while failing to actually offer reminder #4 (the rest of the loot left over is actually going to the boss..regardless..) bwhahahahaha...
or something sorta along those lines...ya know?
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
I guess I'm the only one that enjoyed math in school...the numbers (d-a-t-a) are in the first post of this thread. How that data is used (or misused) and the conclusion thus derived is what is in question.
Looking at your example, you use actual numbers for consecutive years. The OP used 2008 estimated cost for 10,000+ employees and divided it by the 12,000- actual employees. If you can't see the problem with that I give up.
Jim
while personally it is nice to see your interest regarding Flight Attendant integration issues at another airline..
as Luke has mentioned, both groups pretty much are aligned roughly the same, we make a little more here, they make a little more there and the idea is to bring the best of both and combine it together and that is the goal.
these other ideas of actually breaking it down to the penny are all well and good but honestly, is it really that necessary and important to do that here on this forum?
ya know?
as Luke has mentioned, both groups pretty much are aligned roughly the same, we make a little more here, they make a little more there and the idea is to bring the best of both and combine it together and that is the goal.
these other ideas of actually breaking it down to the penny are all well and good but honestly, is it really that necessary and important to do that here on this forum?
ya know?
