2015 Pilot Discussion.

[luvthe9]

As much as I would like to see the raise, I am ticked over Kirby's response to a VERY reasonable request for calendar day. 11 hour 3 day trips are ridiculous. My firm YES vote is now NO. It's become a matter of principal for me at this point.

Say it ain't so!!!!!!

 

[usfliboi]

Amazing at the ignorance

 

[PullUp]

LUV -- BRAVO! Outstanding letter. I'm going to vote ---- 'NO'.
Cheers.

 

[luvthe9]

LUV -- BRAVO! Outstanding letter. I'm going to vote ---- 'NO'.
Cheers.

Not my letter, Just found it and thought it had some good points we should all think about, we got suckered into LOA93 and the MOU and I really don't want to see that happen again.

 

[EastUS1]

 
 
 
That is fine to vote no because of an issue, except you fail to espouse how that no vote would change the offer that stands.  If this TA is rejected through membership ratification then we go to arbitration.  That arbitration is by definition cost neutral.  ..................
 
Gentlemen, if you believe the valuations APA is using are correct and that management is really giving us $1.9 billion dollars out of the goodness of their hearts, then I have a couple of good savings and loans to recommend AND some swamp land for sale.
 

 
 
Bottom Line = "Gentlemen, if you believe the valuations APA is using are correct and that management is really giving us $1.9 billion dollars out of the goodness of their hearts, then I have a couple of good savings and loans to recommend AND some swamp land for sale."
 
"Gentlemen, if you believe the valuations..." then you must also reasonably assume a purple wigged tutu's "worth" tens of millions in stock options alone, as does the rest of management,  just sayin'...
 
P.S. I can't speak for the author, but I do actually have some swamp land for sale if anyone's interested.

 

[Metroyet]

Not my letter, Just found it and thought it had some good points we should all think about, we got suckered into LOA93 and the MOU and I really don't want to see that happen again.

You stayed on LOA93 for an extra 5 YEARS by choice. Let's not forget that little detail.

 

[EastUS1]

You stayed on LOA93 for an extra 5 YEARS by choice.....

 
That's an excellent example of conditions where a degree of reasoned forebearance prevented much larger and longer term losses. Your entirely unintended point is well made. One must hope that a life confined to stagnation in PHX for 9 years and counting is treating you equally well. It's often the case that looking no farther than a nickel or immediate gain right here and right now's not really the best thinking a person can do.

 

[nycbusdriver]

It doesn't matter because negotiations are over!!

AA uses several planes to fly to international destinations as well as domestic destinations, but the crews that operate those aircraft sre trained to fly domestically or internationally, rather than both. Parker wants to eliminate that distinction which will result in fewer pilots required.

 
Let's get real, here.  There is definitely more to learn/know/work to fly internationally, versus domestically.  However, if one is trained in international procedures, it does in no way preclude his/her qualifications/abilities to fly domestically.  And international procedures are a bit different and bit more burdensome, but not outside the ability of anyone domestically qualified to perform.
 
The Green Book requirement for this division is borderline "union featherbedding."  LUS has functioned amazingly well without the division for years now.  It's yet another solution in search of a problem.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Sorry pal, you signed up for the arbitration, it's too bad you are not man enough to abide by the results.

 
USAPA abided by the Nicolau arbitration to the letter.  I have no idea what you are talking about.  Did I miss the single contract which was a requirement of the arbitration to take effect?

 

[nevergiveup]

 No need to give anything away. I am content. Voting no. 

 

[nycbusdriver]

GOOD LETTER




Officers and Members of the APA Board,

.....

 
Unsigned, of course.  Full of this alleged pilot's own fiscal assumptions stated as fact, a technique well-developed by CM.
 
BTW: Tenant does not mean the same thing as tenet.

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
 
Bottom Line = "Gentlemen, if you believe the valuations APA is using are correct and that management is really giving us $1.9 billion dollars out of the goodness of their hearts, then I have a couple of good savings and loans to recommend AND some swamp land for sale."
 
"Gentlemen, if you believe the valuations..." then you must also reasonably assume a purple wigged tutu's "worth" tens of millions in stock options alone, as does the rest of management,  just sayin'...
 
P.S. I can't speak for the author, but I do actually have some swamp land for sale if anyone's interested.

 
I cannot believe that 17,000 supposedly-educated pilots might base, even in the slightest way, their CBA vote on Kirby wearing a purple tutu in a show that was merely a fun event where likely a lot of folks were blowing off steam.  I am glad to see Kirby can actually have fun.  (Do the Southwest pilots treat Kelleher's notable antics in the same way, making him look incompetent to run SWA back then?)
 
Should we all have our technical piloting skills evaluated on similar events in our lives?  And EVERY one of us has had al least one "purple tutu" type event we would rather forget.

 

[CactusPilot1]

 
USAPA abided by the Nicolau arbitration to the letter.  I have no idea what you are talking about.  Did I miss the single contract which was a requirement of the arbitration to take effect?

Huh? I guess we wasted a lot of time and money going through the arbitration process.

I thought the purpose of a union was to get a single contract. The intent is to give the employees leverage with the company and not used as a 2x4 on the dues paying members. If other unions used Usapian logic it would spell the end of unionism.

 

[PullUp]

 If other unions used Usapian logic it would spell the end of unionism.

Ahem, look around. Unionism IS dead. Where unions still exist, they are marginalized to the extent that they are nothing but contract bargaining representatives, with 'bargaining' de-emphasized.
So called 'Right to Work' laws have killed unions and crippled wages and benefits for middle class jobs, turning them into lower-middle class or part-time positions.
Our 'union' right to self help (strike) has been taken away by PEB's. 
Companies dictate to the unions and use bankruptcy laws to slash and burn legal contracts.
Our country is poorer for this turn of events. The pension is a thing of the past, paid health care is all but eradicated, and vacation time goes unused nationwide. Wages are stagnant or worse, and the next generation of workers is eager to take your job and do it for less.
Do we belong to a union, or a professional association? Do most of our ex-military/conservative pilots vote republican or democrat?
In order to have unionism, the membership must be onboard and supportive. I have not seen that characteristic demonstrated in any union I've been associated with, whether it was ALPA, USAPA, or APA.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Ahem, look around. Unionism IS dead. Where unions still exist, they are marginalized to the extent that they are nothing but contract bargaining representatives, with 'bargaining' de-emphasized.
So called 'Right to Work' laws have killed unions and crippled wages and benefits for middle class jobs, turning them into lower-middle class or part-time positions.
Our 'union' right to self help (strike) has been taken away by PEB's. 
Companies dictate to the unions and use bankruptcy laws to slash and burn legal contracts.
Our country is poorer for this turn of events. The pension is a thing of the past, paid health care is all but eradicated, and vacation time goes unused nationwide. Wages are stagnant or worse, and the next generation of workers is eager to take your job and do it for less.
Do we belong to a union, or a professional association? Do most of our ex-military/conservative pilots vote republican or democrat?
In order to have unionism, the membership must be onboard and supportive. I have not seen that characteristic demonstrated in any union I've been associated with, whether it was ALPA, USAPA, or APA.

This is a sad reality, unfortunately. Very well put.