2015 Pilot Discussion.

[nic4us]

Fuzzy math!

 
You are gonna love the "fuzzy math" in January, when the expert witnesses shred the east career earnings expectations at the SLI.
 
But you should not worry.  Nic gave you more than you deserved in the LCC merger, and you will ride the West coattails in the AAL SLI.

 

[EastUS1]

 
No, what I said is NYC flew the A330 for the industry's lowest pay, while I made just as much as him flying the A320 for more than my counterpart at the same company.

 
"while I made just as much as him flying the A320"...?
 
From nyc's post above: "Westhole captains +/- $142/hour.
 
East A330 captains $163/hour."
 
Please do at least show us all your "math" there nic4us....? Let me guess: "Common Core"?

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
Yep, and thanks for posting the pay rates.
 
West A320 Captain @ $142/hr getting paid approximately 1080 hrs/yr = $153,360  add to that pay for training etc and you have the average West A320 capt making $155,000/yr with 31 days of vacation and much better benefits and work rules.  We had a West poster on this board show a copy of their W2 at $172,000, which is likely a 757 guy, but more in line with what I made as a West A320 captain for the decade while the scab union led you lemmings off the lets renege on our contracts cliff.
 
east A330 captain @ $163/hr  paid 78 hrs/month = 936 hrs for the year.  936 X $163= $152,000/ year with 2 weeks vacation and no cancellation pay, shitty trip rigs etc. (i.e. less than West)
 
east A320 captain @ $124/hr paid 78 hrs/month = $116,000/ year
 
So, for the entire decade while the east was on LOA93, West A320 captains made what the utmost top of scale east A330 captains made, and the east A320 captains made barely more than West F/Os, and the east F/Os barely made $85,000 /year...or less than most RJ captains at the commuters.
 
The West has no problems with facts, the facts are you reneging malcontents worked for the worst pay in the industry.  Far below West pay, even for your top of scale A330 drivers, who BTW lost over $775,000 in contract improvements.  
 
One more fact for you.  Had the east been brought up to West vacation rules, in 2008 we would have had to hire, NOT FURLOUGH, just to cover the vacation weeks added to the east.  So, not only did you lose $500,000 per east pilot for that ten years.  uscaba is also directly responsible for the furloughs in 2008, contrary to that little vp's assertion that the company was furloughing as a "negotiations tactic".

 
Well, if you continue to post fictitious numbers made up by you west idiots, of course you can make a silk purse appear like a sows ear.  The east contract was for 85 hours, and several times a year that was upped to 90 along with Pay-No-Credit training sent an A330 captain's W-2 far in excess of anyone on the west.
 
As far as "losing" money, I lost nothing.  What I did win is watching you idiots pour your own hard-
earned cash down the legal toilet.
 
As far as furloughs, by the time Nicolau even presented his abomination, most of the East pilots were back from furlough...and your westicle intransigence led to your own group getting flushed out the bottom for several years.  Good job!  
 
Besides....it was great fun and well worth the wait for a pay raise to see USAPA's foot on your collective throats.

 

[nic4us]

 
Well, if you continue to post fictitious numbers made up by you west idiots, of course you can make a silk purse appear like a sows ear.  The east contract was for 85 hours, and several times a year that was upped to 90 along with Pay-No-Credit training sent an A330 captain's W-2 far in excess of anyone on the west.
 
As far as "losing" money, I lost nothing.  What I did win is watching you idiots pour your own hard-
earned cash down the legal toilet.
 
As far as furloughs, by the time Nicolau even presented his abomination, most of the East pilots were back from furlough...and your westicle intransigence led to your own group getting flushed out the bottom for several years.  Good job!  
 
Besides....it was great fun and well worth the wait for a pay raise to see USAPA's foot on your collective throats.

 
Fictitious numbers??
 
Tell you what.  Pick a year between 2005-2015 and just tell us what your gross income was for that year.  I will even take your word for it.  My best year in that time frame was $172,688, and I did that while still taking my 31 days of vacation.
 
You lost over $750,000 dollars in wage improvements and a boatload more in time off.  How many days a month did you have to work to get that 85 hour line?  And even flying an 85 hour line @ $163/hr you still only made shy of $170,000.
 
Glad you had fun watching the uscaba's foot on our "collective throats", now it is your turn to watch as the West puts that foot up your collective azzes.
 
Oh, and one more thing......our hard earned money has not stopped paying legal dividends.  Lets see what Judges Silver and Conrad rule.
 
 
Actually, two more things...you do realize the West is still the highest paid group on the new pay scales right?  Every day there are what our contract calls red flag trips in open time.  They pay %150.  So, many West captains are out there flying at $342/hr  every day.  I am told there are gonna be West capts breaking $400,000 this year.  Are you gonna do that on your 330? 

 

[Phoenix]

Well, if you continue to post fictitious numbers made up by you west idiots, of course you can make a silk purse appear like a sows ear.  The east contract was for 85 hours, and several times a year that was upped to 90 along with Pay-No-Credit training sent an A330 captain's W-2 far in excess of anyone on the west.
 
As far as "losing" money, I lost nothing.  What I did win is watching you idiots pour your own hard-
earned cash down the legal toilet.
 
As far as furloughs, by the time Nicolau even presented his abomination, most of the East pilots were back from furlough...and your westicle intransigence led to your own group getting flushed out the bottom for several years.  Good job!  
 
Besides....it was great fun and well worth the wait for a pay raise to see USAPA's foot on your collective throats.

.... Uhm, Nic4US, read NY's post carefully.. It appears the AOL shiny brochures almost have him convinced. I suggest you all gen up a new brochure and send it out to the stolen addresses, and while you are at it maybe include the reAAl pilots too!

 

[luvthe9]

 
 
Actually, two more things...you do realize the West is still the highest paid group on the new pay scales right?  Every day there are what our contract calls red flag trips in open time.  They pay %150.  So, many West captains are out there flying at $342/hr  every day.  I am told there are gonna be West capts breaking $400,000 this year.  Are you gonna do that on your 330?

Geez, wye do little scabs whine so much then, fishbowl letter, thought you would not want anything to change making that much............sure you were "told"

 

[EastUS1]

 
Fictitious numbers??
.........................
  I am told there are gonna be West capts breaking $400,000 this year.

 
Um Hmm...and you actually believe that? Small wonder about your postings these past years then. No matter. Little doubt can even exist that the Easter Bunny, "karma" or at least the Tooth Fairy will soon be along to make that "$400,000 this year" happen. After all; just look what they've all done for the nic so far.
 
Just FYI kid: "I am told" does not constitute at all sound (or even slightly logical) argument of any kind.
 
nic4us: "You lost over $750,000 dollars in wage improvements and a boatload more in time off."...? That figure's gone up a lot since first imagined by "you'se". My recollection was of fatuous claims of merely "half a million" only. Is your latest fantasy from Common Core "math" or simply adjusted for inflation since your last time through Fantasyland?
 
P.S. Whatever happened to those literally "Billions in Damages" you long ago posted about as being inevitable? nic4us: "now it is your turn to watch as the West puts that foot up your collective azzes." Should we take that as again/still/any day now/what? Is there at least yet another "T-Minus" countdown clock you could charitably set so that we'll all be spiritually prepared for the always-and-forever-promised east apocalypse? Sigh...It's been well over 8 years now listening to "you'se" juvenile nonsense.  Bottom Line: You really should consider some professional help son.

 

[Claxon]

Fictitious numbers??
 
Tell you what.  Pick a year between 2005-2015 and just tell us what your gross income was for that year.  I will even take your word for it.  My best year in that time frame was $172,688, and I did that while still taking my 31 days of vacation.
 
You lost over $750,000 dollars in wage improvements and a boatload more in time off.  How many days a month did you have to work to get that 85 hour line?  And even flying an 85 hour line @ $163/hr you still only made shy of $170,000.
 
Glad you had fun watching the uscaba's foot on our "collective throats", now it is your turn to watch as the West puts that foot up your collective azzes.
 
Oh, and one more thing......our hard earned money has not stopped paying legal dividends.  Lets see what Judges Silver and Conrad rule.
 
 
Actually, two more things...you do realize the West is still the highest paid group on the new pay scales right?  Every day there are what our contract calls red flag trips in open time.  They pay %150.  So, many West captains are out there flying at $342/hr  every day.  I am told there are gonna be West capts breaking $400,000 this year.  Are you gonna do that on your 330?

The MIT data proves you are an outright liar. Your tenure at america west has largely been bottom dweller pay and benefits.

 

[Claxon]

Average Annual Wages and Salaries - PILOT AND CO-PILOT PERSONNEL
NO ADJUSTMENTS MADE
1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014
American $ 112,190 $ 116,470 $ 131,651 $ 137,971 $ 130,099 $ 132,477 $ 123,244 $ 126,335 $ 130,019 $ 129,947 $ 137,734 $ 138,290 $ 138,743 $ 138,792 $ 137,482 $ 139,872 $ 139,963 $ 140,689 $ 147,312 $ 151,558
Continental $ 90,461 $ 108,561 $ 124,152 $ 154,401 $ 161,395 $ 166,752 $ 163,624 $ 136,686 $ 140,028 $ 145,061 $ 128,724 $ 123,618 $ 133,318 $ 136,253 $ 150,211 $ 156,458 $ 178,727 $ - $ - $ -
Delta $ 129,315 $ 134,016 $ 131,249 $ 121,885 $ 143,880 $ 150,549 $ 185,982 $ 173,365 $ 197,380 $ 209,330 $ 155,532 $ 127,268 $ 128,756 $ 125,616 $ 132,374 $ 142,801 $ 150,099 $ 158,227 $ 181,804 $ 193,555
Northwest $ 154,635 $ 131,641 $ 126,107 $ 142,578 $ 128,100 $ 134,441 $ 138,427 $ 148,084 $ 161,931 $ 169,208 $ 143,618 $ 117,556 $ 132,009 $ 120,798 $ 146,675 $ - $ - $ - $ - $ -
United $ 135,728 $ 146,249 $ 147,212 $ 135,886 $ 117,920 $ 132,126 $ 138,627 $ 184,429 $ 116,998 $ 132,010 $ 115,242 $ 114,985 $ 115,711 $ 119,460 $ 125,465 $ 124,228 $ 125,690 $ 143,076 $ 164,581 $ 185,430
US Airways $ 127,154 $ 132,437 $ 135,623 $ 135,762 $ 128,722 $ 119,513 $ 157,090 $ 153,587 $ 154,638 $ 132,741 $ 120,124 $ 91,419 $ 103,487 $ 113,851 $ 111,329 $ 110,199 $ 109,535 $ 118,240 $ 121,069 $ 157,127
America West $ 77,093 $ 82,589 $ 86,289 $ 85,117 $ 75,045 $ 99,221 $ 99,301 $ 92,148 $ 92,111 $ 100,269 $ 101,279 $ - $ - $ - $ - $ - $ - $ - $ - $ -
--sub Network $ 124,353 $ 128,147 $ 132,550 $ 134,301 $ 129,881 $ 136,773 $ 146,041 $ 150,515 $ 145,082 $ 150,572 $ 133,466 $ 120,889 $ 126,615 $ 127,031 $ 133,979 $ 136,685 $ 142,089 $ 144,378 $ 160,495 $ 175,846
Southwest $ 107,109 $ 106,862 $ 110,905 $ - $ 109,958 $ 110,601 $ 112,259 $ 117,558 $ 130,069 $ 144,511 $ 157,420 $ 165,882 $ 167,112 $ 172,750 $ 176,726 $ 192,289 $ 203,196 $ 187,551 $ 194,598 $ 197,782
jetBlue $ - $ - $ - $ - $ - $ 22,132 $ 56,644 $ 93,332 $ 93,532 $ 95,841 $ 96,734 $ 98,927 $ 105,893 $ 107,647 $ 124,680 $ 140,546 $ 139,744 $ 139,687 $ 147,109 $ 148,428
AirTran $ 54,838 $ 65,770 $ 68,926 $ 75,335 $ 85,709 $ 89,593 $ 98,055 $ 95,809 $ 96,527 $ 99,311 $ 100,952 $ 104,265 $ 108,549 $ 128,225 $ - $ - $ -
Frontier $ - $ - $ - $ 27,592 $ 29,091 $ 37,516 $ 102,065 $ 109,865 $ 110,417 $ 112,256 $ 99,879 $ 102,726 $ 108,905 $ 107,707 $ 96,119 $ 101,126 $ 113,250 $ 116,122 $ 116,366 $ 125,811
Virgin America $ - $ - $ - $ - $ - $ - $ - $ - $ - $ - $ - $ - $ - $ - $ 73,576 $ 63,993 $ 75,869 $ 92,070 $ 106,630 $ 134,541
--sub LCC $ 104,933 $ 102,696 $ 90,662 $ 42,482 $ 94,394 $ 93,100 $ 103,964 $ 110,930 $ 118,997 $ 129,200 $ 134,414 $ 138,041 $ 140,335 $ 141,328 $ 147,776 $ 157,991 $ 167,612 $ 168,703 $ 175,162 $ 178,560
Alaska $ 104,893 $ 106,838 $ 114,791 $ 52,344 $ 52,773 $ 132,140 $ 141,808 $ 151,734 $ 163,211 $ 160,974 $ 145,953 $ 129,620 $ 130,022 $ 132,877 $ 163,096 $ 150,061 $ 153,530 $ 155,024 $ 159,858 $ 159,839
Hawaiian $ 74,565 $ 75,803 $ 79,762 $ 76,402 $ 1,859,096 $ 79,289 $ 90,924 $ 111,463 $ 105,289 $ 121,216 $ 132,782 $ 125,350 $ 126,812 $ - $ 117,351 $ 120,097 $ 117,354 $ 119,225 $ 134,667 $ 145,434
Allegiant $ - $ - $ - $ - $ - $ - $ - $ - $ - $ - $ - $ 47,559 $ 47,861 $ 56,870 $ 65,419 $ 83,839 $ 89,398 $ 87,993 $ 91,712 $ 94,616
-- sub Other $ 98,089 $ 100,372 $ 107,795 $ 54,637 $ 61,422 $ 119,120 $ 130,189 $ 142,453 $ 146,566 $ 147,649 $ 132,102 $ 121,036 $ 118,392 $ 118,887 $ 137,507 $ 131,830 $ 133,707 $ 134,423 $ 141,709 $ 143,591
Total All Sectors $ 122,702 $ 125,956 $ 129,090 $ 127,624 $ 123,509 $ 132,567 $ 141,695 $ 145,965 $ 141,849 $ 147,394 $ 133,569 $ 124,080 $ 129,065 $ 129,802 $ 137,194 $ 141,306 $ 147,610 $ 149,640 $ 162,922 $ 174,655
Note: Shaded data means data appear questionable.
Data Source: US DOT Form 41 via BTS, Schedule P6 & P10.

 

[Claxon]

 
Um Hmm...and you actually believe that? Small wonder about your postings these past years then. No matter. Little doubt can even exist that the Easter Bunny, "karma" or at least the Tooth Fairy will soon be along to make that "$400,000 this year" happen. After all; just look what they've all done for the nic so far.
 
Just FYI kid: "I am told" does not constitute at all sound (or even slightly logical) argument of any kind.
 
nic4us: "You lost over $750,000 dollars in wage improvements and a boatload more in time off."...? That figure's gone up a lot since first imagined by "you'se". My recollection was of fatuous claims of merely "half a million" only. Is your latest fantasy from Common Core "math" or simply adjusted for inflation since your last time through Fantasyland?
 
P.S. Whatever happened to those literally "Billions in Damages" you long ago posted about as being inevitable? nic4us: "now it is your turn to watch as the West puts that foot up your collective azzes." Should we take that as again/still/any day now/what? Is there at least yet another "T-Minus" countdown clock you could charitably set so that we'll all be spiritually prepared for the always-and-forever-promised east apocalypse? Sigh...It's been well over 8 years now listening to "you'se" juvenile nonsense.  Bottom Line: You really should consider some professional help son.

NoNic4 9 yrs will cherry pick a few years and act as if his career was exactly like that. NoNic4 9 yrs insists he is a captain. If he is a captain, he worked at awa for the very bad years clearly listed in the facts of the MIT data.
NoNicFor9 yrs insists the FISHBOWL is utopia, yet argues for the Nic relentlessly. There is a disconnect.
Your thoughts. NoNic4us?
Was your pay in the early decades of your career as bad as the data says?

 

[Phoenix]

Another new year's eve celebration is right around the corner and once again the west will celebrate without beer or fireworks. Marty has all the beer and fireworks money. Drive by Marty's house and he will let ya see his fireworks, from the street. But don't be asking to drink his beer.

 

[cactusboy53]

Oohh.....NOT DESPERATE AT ALL BOYS. Rage against the machine all you want. The completion of the SLI starts in a week, and arguments end in 21 days.

Be PREPARED for ANY outcome, and REMEMBER. ....the list is FINAL AND BINDING (just like the last one).

 

[luvthe9]

Oohh.....NOT DESPERATE AT ALL BOYS. Rage against the machine all you want. The completion of the SLI starts in a week, and arguments end in 21 days.
Be PREPARED for ANY outcome, and REMEMBER. ....the list is FINAL AND BINDING (just like the last one).

Dave, "DESPERATE" is your fishbowl letter and the latest PHX update that your signature was on............Wye do you continue to be the base fool?

 

[Phoenix]

Oohh.....NOT DESPERATE AT ALL BOYS. Rage against the machine all you want. The completion of the SLI starts in a week, and arguments end in 21 days.
Be PREPARED for ANY outcome, and REMEMBER. ....the list is FINAL AND BINDING (just like the last one).

The only similarity between this arbitration and the last is that both are fair and equitable, in the eyes of their respective arbitrators. So what? They think their baby is beautiful. Of course they do.

Unlike the last one, this one is void of contingencies controlled by the pilots. No pilot controls anything from here (you guys already voted 98% in favor for what is happening now. Enjoy the suspense of the show!).

Prepare yourself for two things. 1) the BOA decision will indeed fall within a wide range of reasonableness--a very, very wide range, and 2) the company may or may not have IT issues for a long time.

P.S. You don't have to keep donating money in an attempt to manipulate the outcome. The pilot influence is over.

You really can spend your money on your own beer and fireworks. Try it!!

 

[luvthe9]

P.S. You don't have to keep donating money in an attempt to manipulate the outcome. The pilot influence is over.
You really can spend your money on your own beer and fireworks. Try it!![/quote]




They kind of have to donations are way down and they are still in debt to Marty.