2015 Pilot Discussion.

[cactusboy53]

The Kirby rates I have on my computer are no where near what I'm making now, despite your repeated proclamations.
When are you going to leave that poor horse alone and move on?

Are you really THAT obtuse? Do we REALLY have to draw you a picture?

Kirby rates (NB Capt) in 2007 @ $160. That translates to $183 TODAY. Not to mention ALL of the advantages of contract improvements (100% MX, CANCEL & DH) and vacation. AND we would have been WELL past a contract negotiation date (think Delta, slick). BTW, that is money that you will NEVER recover.

A NB Captain could have been well within the $200 range pre-American merger. Do I have to spell out the advantages of that position, Enstein....or are now picking up what I'm laying down? Need another picture?

Boy, you dips are thick.

 

[nycbusdriver]

CORRECTION: NO EAST/AAA PILOTS BELIEVE THAT.....because to admit that would be to admit abject FAILURE.

 
You are such a moron.
 
In 2007 we all could have had the Kirby Proposal, which even your own west dimwits didn't even like.  Had that Proposal seen the light of day in 2007, THAT is what we would still be on absent the AA merger.
 
Compare the Kirby Proposal to our current AA contract and get back to me, you effing idiot.

 

[Pi brat]

Are you really THAT obtuse? Do we REALLY have to draw you a picture?
Kirby rates (NB Capt) in 2007 @ $160. That translates to $183 TODAY. Not to mention ALL of the advantages of contract improvements (100% MX, CANCEL & DH) and vacation. AND we would have been WELL past a contract negotiation date (think Delta, slick). BTW, that is money that you will NEVER recover.
A NB Captain could have been well within the $200 range pre-American merger. Do I have to spell out the advantages of that position, Enstein....or are now picking up what I'm laying down? Need another picture?
Boy, you dips are thick.

What NYC said.

Guys like you love to pick and choose. You leave out scope. You leave out E190 rates. You leave out the fact that YOUR MEC called the Kirby inadequate.

You are the only guy I see beating this drum. Don't worry about what we lost, we've moved on and are okay with it. But you're still stuck in the right seat, making much less than those beside you on the Nic. So could that be what is driving you Mr. Obtuse?

 

[cactusboy53]

Sorry. My mistake. You guys are much more clever than I realized. Working at LOA 93 wages (and a bankruptcy contract) was absolutely BRILLIANT!

I understand that same level of top-drawer thinking can be seen in yesterday's transcripts due out today.

 

[Pi brat]

Sorry. My mistake. You guys are much more clever than I realized. Working at LOA 93 wages (and a bankruptcy contract) was absolutely BRILLIANT!
I understand that same level of top-drawer thinking can be seen in yesterday's transcripts due out today.

You guys snivel and whine about being stuck in the fishbowl, yet we're the stupid ones? Ever look in a mirror CB? Who is the guy whining about the cost of LOA 93? You, not those of us that lived within. Thanks for your concern.

The rest of the pilots of the new AA have accepted the cost of our past and are moving on. Well, except for some on C&R, but Perhaps you should try it. Maybe you can be happy again.

BTW, I enjoyed reading about how the bulk of the money you're asking for from USAPA is from the cases you LOST. Integrity.

 

[traderjake]

You got your do over, you should be happy.
 
We all understand why the mention of what you had to do to get it upsets you. 

 

[Pi brat]

You got your do over, you should be happy.
 
We all understand why the mention of what you had to do to get it upsets you.

I am pretty happy Trader. You?

What "I" had to do? Really?

 

[Pi brat]

BTW trader, as far as the do over goes. IMHO there is about a 90% chance the Nic will be used in the current SLI.

 

[traderjake]

I say 50% chance.  

 

[Claxon]

Well, the good news is you're finally getting the pay that you could have had since mid-late 2007. Brilliant!

Simmons proves once again why he was a miserable rep and not qualified to represent anyone. He lies again and again. Keep up the lies Dave. There are reams of documents and court filings waiting for your next lie.




Case 2:08-cv-01633-NVW Document 512 Filed 06/10/2009 Page 6 of 14

With respect to wages, the Companys proposal the Kirby Proposal is still on the table in current negotiations (Hemenway Trial Tr. 862:2-11), and Plaintiffs witness, Russell Payne, testified that he recalled that West MEC Chairman McIlvenna (and the East MEC chairman) considered the Kirby Proposal for pay to be woefully inadequate. (Tr. 644:15-19).

Plaintiffs dispute this fact on the grounds that this evidence is inadmissible hearsay. (Doc. # 508 ¶ 21). However, Plaintiffs did not make a hearsay objection, or any objection, when Mr. Payne was asked about his recollection of the woefully inadequate comment. Further, Plaintiffs objection now (that [t]his cannot be used to prove the truth of the matter asserted that, in fact, the Kirby proposal was inadequate, Doc. # 508 ¶ 21) has no merit in any event because Defendant was not
trying to prove that the Kirby Proposal was in fact inadequate but rather that the West MEC chairman regarded the proposal as inadequate. Based on the fact that the East and West MECs were not prepared to accept the Kirby Proposal, Mr. Payne agreed that we cant sit here and prognosticate when it would have been TAd. (Tr. 644:23-25). And when asked, [t]herefore we cant prognosticate as to when a final contract altogether would have been TAd, correct? Mr. Payne responded, Not with any certainty, no. (Tr. 645:1-3).

 

[Claxon]

Finally, there is the question of delay, if any, caused by USAPA's pursuit of an equitable seniority integration solution. The most important point that must be recognized by all US Airways pilots is that the primary source of delay in reaching a single CBA is the non-seniority issue of economics and the intransigence of the Company in this regard. Until the recent disingenuous Leonidas mailer, there has never been any dispute that the Company's current economic proposal (the Kirby Proposal) is unacceptable throughout the pilot group. First, in a West MEC update dated July 23, 2007, West MEC Chairman John McIlvenna described the Kirby proposal as "woefully inadequate." Furthermore, in a draft letter from John McIlvenna to East MEC Chairman Jack Stephan dated February 22, 2008, the West MEC Chairman explained that "the May 2007 Kirby proposal ... was deemed unacceptable by both pilot groups." Now let's look at what the individual Addington plaintiffs (Leonidas members) said with respect to the Kirby proposal:

Steve Wargocki testified* that he would "probably not" vote for a contract that incorporated the Kirby proposal;
Mark Burman testified* that the Kirby proposal "seemed to fall short of what expectations were moving forward with the new contract."
Afshin Iranpour testified* that "from his point of view ... [the pilots] could probably ask for more than just [the] 3 percent raise" contained in the Kirby proposal;
Roger Velez (current PHX Domicile Representative) responded* with an emphatic "no" when asked if he would vote for a single CBA which incorporated the Kirby proposal as its economic package;
John Bostic, testified* that he "wouldn't be satisfied" with the Kirby proposal and he "would like [something] better."
(*Comments come directly from court transcripts and sworn depositions)

Your thoughts Dave Simmons?

 

[EastUS1]

Well, the good news is you're finally getting the pay that you could have had since mid-late 2007. Brilliant!

 
While your posting history has fully evidenced that you suffer from some degree of disossociative/Fantasyland disorder with just all the "This is Sparta!" nonsense alone..well, your last removes all doubt about your clearly needing psychiatric care. I honestly don't know any kinder/gentler way to effectively put that.

 

[EastUS1]

BTW trader, as far as the do over goes. IMHO there is about a 90% chance the Nic will be used in the current SLI.

 
The only eventuality that could much surprise me to see would be for the ex AWA/USair contingents to receive at all favorable treatment versus the "Native Americans"....

 

[cactusboy53]

Freund:   Okay.  And would it be fair to say that in looking at this slide, if one were to take the American pilots out, what we would see would be Rick Brown's substituted judgment as the new George Nicolau with respect to the relationship between the East pilots and the West pilots?
 
Insert Wilder’s objection that the question is argumentative….and yet…maybe the BOA gets it.  I think they do.  Hmmmmm, where have we seen this before??
 
Rick Brown SLI cross-examination                                                                      January 06, 2016
 
Oh yea...
 
In the matter of: Preliminary Arbitration Board APA/USAPA/AA (December 17, 2014)
 
ARBITRATOR JAVITS: All three lists. I guess the gravamen of the questions is are you then putting yourself in the place of Nicolau, are you the new Nicolau because you are proposing a list which may not reflect Nicolau's list? ….. And American pilots. And, therefore, you're making a proposal, which may be different than what Nicolau had in mind and issued back in '07.
 
MR. FREUND (in closing):As the Chairman put it so nicely in his questioning of Jess Pauley, what the US -- what the East Committee, the US Airways Committee, the USAPA Committee, call it what you want, what it wants to do is to put itself in the place of George Nicolau and redo what George did in 2007.
 
DOES the BOA get it?  Yes, I do believe they do.
 
Your thoughts Mike Cleary.....oooh, I mean Claxon?  Oh WAIT!  Here are you very thoughts!...:
 
“…The Arbitration Board conducts an evidentiary hearing, with witnesses, evidence and a stenographic transcript. The Board’s Opinion and Award are to be issued simultaneously, within 150 days following the PID, unless both pilot groups and ALPA’s President agree to an extension. The Merger Policy provides, “The Award of the Arbitration Board shall be final and binding on all parties to the arbitration and shall be defended by ALPA.” No ALPA seniority integration arbitration result has ever been set aside by the courts although some dissatisfied pilots have challenged the award before administrative agencies and the courts.”
 
US Airwaves June/July 2000
US Air Merger Committee Members: Todd Cardoza (PIT), Mike Cleary (BOS),Randy Mowery (PIT)

 

[cactusboy53]

The Board then considered the resolution shown below dealing with the NAC/Kirby Proposal, which due to a constitutional conflict was ruled out of order by the chair. A motion to amend the agenda to allow PHX to present an amended version of the resolution required a 2/3 majority vote and was defeated by a vote 6-5 (Yes - CLT McKee, DCA, PHX; No - CLT Crimi, Ingram, PHL).
 
You guys could have at least been able to vote on the wage increase & proposal...BUT your union leadership failed to give you that chance!  Failed representation at its highest.