2015 Pilot Discussion.

[Claxon]

 
Day 3, January 6. 
Q = Jeff Freund asking East witness Rick Brown a legal question.
 
 
Q. Okay. And would it be fair to say that in
looking at this slide, if one were to take the
American pilots out, what we would see would be Rick
Brown's substituted judgment as the new George
Nicolau with respect to the relationship between the
East pilots and the West pilots?

MR. WILDER: Objection. I don't think I
even need to explain why that question is
objectionable.
It's unhelpful to the Panel and
argumentive.
 
MR. FREUND: I'll withdraw the question.

ARBITRATOR EISCHEN: But I don't need to
respond either. Thank you.

MR. FREUND: That's all I have. Thank
you.

 

 

[Black Swan]

The west committee was to have Jeff Freund put Brian Stockdale on the witness stand. Cannot find his testimony after Wilder addressed the arbs. Can you please hold the vocabulary exercise and enlighten us as to the missing Stockdale testimony?

CBoy53 is really going to need his pal Spinthis to dig out of this one.
Wilder took control and shut Freund down is the long and short of it. Stockdale is MIA.

 

[EastUS1]

My oh my, listen to yourself.. Every thing is scary as hell and your only solution is a monopolistic Union led by Fur Prater, Mao Wilson, or Guillotine Gladys.

If they do well, their ivory palace pay continues, if not other solutions will spring up.

 
No argument with your observations on obvious corruption, but I must lean towards nyc's concerns. At NO point should any of us reasonably cheer for the legal erosion/evisceration of labor unions. No human institutions have ever long-survived without pond scum inevitably floating to the top, but any/all fantasies of the grand joy of being fully "at will" employees are just that; fantasies. One need only consider the funds available to corporate giants, versus those attainable through merely thousands of employees to envision just which side would have the most strength. Corporate tools have already managed to find enough puppets in congress/guv-mint to write into law the bogus "bankruptcy" legislation of recent years that made it possible to simply steal pensions, and/or ever being "bankrupt" at all with literally billions of $$$ in liquidity. Further efforts at eroding unions in no way serves any worker's interests.
 
When but a callow youth in even then undergrad business school, I long-ago learned legal notions that do not at ALL apply today, given the amazingly granted "flexibility" of subsequent "legislation". Some 40 years ago; it wasn't possible to just decide: "Hey!...It's Tuesday!...Let's celebrate by going "bankrupt" and looting all those irritating employee contracts/pensions/etc!....With the full assurance that we'll stay in business and easily fund our bonuses!" Simple question: When's the last time any given union proved able to fully "buy" a congressman or senator? I'm merely talking "Realpoltik" here. Now then: when's the last time any collective corporate interests ever had even the least bit of difficulty doing so? Shall we even bother to examine "Stimulus" legislation/"bailouts"/etc, versus even the easy ability of virtually any business entity of sufficient size to magically declare it's self "bankrupt"?
 
Purely "At Will" is nowhere any labor force ever sanely wants to be....Period.

 

[EastUS1]

CBoy53 is really going to need his pal Spinthis to dig out of this one.
Wilder took control and shut Freund down is the long and short of it. Stockdale is MIA.

 
I honestly have no real idea on what to expect from arbitration. Too many variables at play there to hazard even a reasonable guess. One thing is certain though; there's nothing of the "spartan" position that allows anyone with even a room temp IQ to assume a grand triumph for them, nor do I suspect that "the house" will go heavily against the "Native Americans". Time will tell.  Mr. Nicolau, to his credit/discredit/whatever, clearly didn't much give a damn about future employment. That I can respect. Had I had a leg blown off in Service with the Mighty Eighth and yet attained his longevity; I rather doubt I'd much care what anyone else thought, but that doesn't apply to the panel now seated. We'll all just have to wait and see.

 

[cactusboy53]

Hey cb53, what did you say about the Kirby? That we could have been making the same amount of money as we are now? Have you read J Mac's testimony? I think he blew you out of the water.

Dear 3.14159265359 (Pi....get it? ):
 
We’re going to do some SIMPLE math today, and return to new words tomorrow.  Get your scratch pad out and follow along, please.
 
First of all, there was at first a “comprehensive proposal” in May of 2008 with the Joint Contract Bargaining Agreement quite nearly done.  This proposal included wages.  This proposal was NOT the company’s final offer (known as the “Kirby Proposal”).
 
So, first of all the US Air pilots (using NB Captain pay) was making $125 an hour, while the AWA NB Captain was making $142 an hour.  A US Air NB Captain working 85 hours a month would earn only $10,625.00 a month, and $127,500.00 a year.
 
The Kirby proposal offered 3% above the AWA $142 an hour for NB (at a minimum), BUT in court testimony a company official stated that they were prepared to go as high as 10% above that figure for the beginning point in 2008. 
 
Based on court testimony, it is estimated that the wage of a US Airways NB Captain could have been as high as $162.36 an hour (starting out at $156.04 in Jan. 2008 – that’s a 24.8% INCREASE in wage!).  That means that same US Airways NB Captain (using an 85 hour work month as a benchmark) would earn $807,044.00 over the course of 5 years (Jan. 2008 through Dec. 2012) vs. $637,500.00. 
 
That is a LOSS of nearly $170,000.00 in five years!  Not to mention the gain of FULL PAY CANCELLATION and FULL PAY DEADHEAD.  Not to mention scheduling improvements.  Not to mention better vacation accrual / time.
 
So……$807,044.00 will ALWAYS be MORE than $637,500.00.  Further, you will NEVER recover those funds that were frittered away by USAPA and its ridiculous claims to get a “industry leading contract” with the “gold standard” of “date-of-hire”.
 
That concludes today's SIMPLE math lesson for today.  Join us tomorrow when we return to learning new words & terms!
 
CB53

 

[Phoenix]

Dear Pi,

CB spent a great deal of effort writing such a voluminous post based on.. wait for it.. another assumption.. that you would bother to read it.

 

[EastUS1]

We’re going to do some SIMPLE math today, and return to new words tomorrow.

 
Understood, and that's sound wisdom indeed. A man has to know his limitations. Don't unduly overtax "you'se" self....
 
"it is estimated that the wage of a US Airways NB Captain could have been". ...? Seriously?....That's the "logical" extent of your "argument"? "estimated....could have been"?

 

[cactusboy53]

Paging Captain Morgan, party of 1 1/5th. Your table is ready.

BTW, my SIMPLE math took all of 15 minutes to show you URINATED AWAY $170,000.00!

You guys are AWESOME (not really. Stupid & pathetic, yes).

 

[EastUS1]

BTW, my SIMPLE math took all of 15 minutes to show you URINATED AWAY $170,000.00!

 
In that sad case; "you'se" are every bit the "SIMPLE" village idiot you've so earnestly striven to present yourself as, and are entirely wrong.
 
Now then: How much has it cost you to remain a fully frustrated first officer in the self-described "Fishbowl" for the whole decade past?

 

[Claxon]

Paging Captain Morgan, party of 1 1/5th. Your table is ready.

BTW, my SIMPLE math took all of 15 minutes to show you URINATED AWAY $170,000.00!

You guys are AWESOME (not really. Stupid & pathetic, yes).

Your back must ache from being bent over legally since the inception of USAPA.
 
Cactusboy, the modern Ned Beatty..

 

[Claxon]

Dear 3.14159265359 (Pi....get it? ):
 
We’re going to do some SIMPLE math today, and return to new words tomorrow.  Get your scratch pad out and follow along, please.
 
First of all, there was at first a “comprehensive proposal” in May of 2008 with the Joint Contract Bargaining Agreement quite nearly done.  This proposal included wages.  This proposal was NOT the company’s final offer (known as the “Kirby Proposal”).
 
So, first of all the US Air pilots (using NB Captain pay) was making $125 an hour, while the AWA NB Captain was making $142 an hour.  A US Air NB Captain working 85 hours a month would earn only $10,625.00 a month, and $127,500.00 a year.
 
The Kirby proposal offered 3% above the AWA $142 an hour for NB (at a minimum), BUT in court testimony a company official stated that they were prepared to go as high as 10% above that figure for the beginning point in 2008. 
 
Based on court testimony, it is estimated that the wage of a US Airways NB Captain could have been as high as $162.36 an hour (starting out at $156.04 in Jan. 2008 – that’s a 24.8% INCREASE in wage!).  That means that same US Airways NB Captain (using an 85 hour work month as a benchmark) would earn $807,044.00 over the course of 5 years (Jan. 2008 through Dec. 2012) vs. $637,500.00. 
 
That is a LOSS of nearly $170,000.00 in five years!  Not to mention the gain of FULL PAY CANCELLATION and FULL PAY DEADHEAD.  Not to mention scheduling improvements.  Not to mention better vacation accrual / time.
 
So……$807,044.00 will ALWAYS be MORE than $637,500.00.  Further, you will NEVER recover those funds that were frittered away by USAPA and its ridiculous claims to get a “industry leading contract” with the “gold standard” of “date-of-hire”.
 
That concludes today's SIMPLE math lesson for today.  Join us tomorrow when we return to learning new words & terms!
 
CB53

You currently have been concerned about wages for the last few years when it could serve your purpose, you did not seem so concerned about america west pilot wages since the illegitimate inception of your airline. Update your america west math ap. 
 
This is my kind of party.
 
Your thoughts please sir?
 
america west pilot wage history, click link below;
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/Documents/Employees%20and%20Compensation/AVG%20WAGE%20-%20Pilots%20and%20Copilots.pdf

 

[Claxon]

.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AantnQxhZ88

 

[Claxon]

cactusboy53 method of operation has been to leave after I post, change his undergarments and return sans facts, rebuttal opinions and intestinal fortitude two or more hours since my last post.  I would not purchase a used car or a tie, using a failed fake strategy selling patriotic ties from him, IMHO.

 

[cactusboy53]

Speaking of fish & fishbowls.......setting the hook, Baby! Zxzzzzzzzzzzź! Fish on!! I'm gonna give him more lead!! Maroons.

 

[Claxon]

Speaking of fish & fishbowls.......setting the hook, Baby! Zxzzzzzzzzzzź! Fish on!! I'm gonna give him more lead!! Maroons.

Wow, what quintessential wisdom from a west leader. 
 
This for a 675 dollar tie that binds you.
 
You have no line in the water in this fishing contest of your west pilots. 
 
The fish have been brought in and are currently being weighed by the Board of Arbitration. 
 
Your fish that you are trying to set the hook on got away, and will not be considered