jbu320
Member
CaptianBoomer said:
Man, you are reading way too much between the lines. You are wayyy too defensive. Re-read it and tell me I'm running around acting like someone is trying to fire anyone. Get a grip on thyself oh wise one.
5 Year Pilots
- Thread starter Walmartgreeter
- Start date
Man, you are reading way too much between the lines. You are wayyy too defensive. Re-read it and tell me I'm running around acting like someone is trying to fire anyone. Get a grip on thyself oh wise one.
jbu320
I am not being defensive of anything, other than the company.
I for one am through debating this with these people.....there is NO end to the five year contract. It is self sustaining like a lease. The only reason that it is only 5 years is there has to be some limit to the furlough pay and the like.
Boomer
I am not being defensive of anything, other than the company.
I for one am through debating this with these people.....there is NO end to the five year contract. It is self sustaining like a lease. The only reason that it is only 5 years is there has to be some limit to the furlough pay and the like.
Boomer
CaptianBoomer said:
Unbelievable :blink:
Let's go over this again SLOWLY V-1. Some senior guy who just signed for his second 10 year term is "safe" (no one is safe BTW, FM, or the man in the black dress can throw any of it out). the point is what about the guys with 4 years 10 onths vs the guy who just signed on the dotted line. POS EMB's get grounded for wing cracks in 2-3 years, WHO GETS WALKING PAPERS? Is it the guys who has his own PERSONAL 5 year deal with the compnay that has 4 years to go, OR is it the guy with 2 onths to go on his 'contract'? Can the pilots band together and renegotiate (seniority based furlough)? Will the 6 month employee allow HIS PERSONAL contract to be abrogated, to protect YOU?
"The only reason that it is only 5 years is there has to be some limit to the furlough pay and the like."
So again, how to you LIMIT furlough pay? By releasing guys as they hit the 5 year point? Who gets released FIRST? The NEXT guy to hit 5 years (or 10 YEARS) or the LAST guy to hit 5 years. Let me guess, you amplifier goes to 11...
"Do you really think that any company, yet alone JetBlue, would furlough, or as you say "cut some fat", from the middle of the seniority list? Come on now."
One more time. THEN HOW WILL THEY DO IT IF THE BOTTOM GUY IS PROTECTED BY HIS "FREE MONEY" 75 HOUR FOR NOT FLYING CONTRACT?
"As a former ALPA member myself, I can tell you the "fight" was over before it even started, and it was the pilot group that got the shaft. Please don't ever tell me about ALPA's willingness to fight."
Let me guess, RJDC?
Bus
Do everyone a favor and stop babbling. Is there a reason that you insert unidentified quotes from other posters and use them to try and make your point with me? Are you drunk?
Why I waste my time with you is beyond me. I've known people such as yourself for years and you're all the same, but I digress. BTW, not that it matters really, but I paid my Eastern Airlines strike assessment probably around the same time you were in diapers son.
V1
Do everyone a favor and stop babbling. Is there a reason that you insert unidentified quotes from other posters and use them to try and make your point with me? Are you drunk?
Why I waste my time with you is beyond me. I've known people such as yourself for years and you're all the same, but I digress. BTW, not that it matters really, but I paid my Eastern Airlines strike assessment probably around the same time you were in diapers son.
V1
jbu320
Member
CaptianBoomer said:
As I said many posts back, I also love the JB treatment I have received and after over 30 times around the Christmas tree in this business, I have to really feel it to say it. You are misreading what my intent was. My post was not condemning you or JB. It is obvious that you are completely up to your ears in Kool Aid or you'd get off the band wagon and have a reasonable discussion here. No one is attacking anyone and you are defensive. That's only my opinion though. Heaven forbid that we should ever come down to the line with a non cooperative JB and have to seek safety in representation by sticking together as a group of professionals. Those days may be gone so excuse me while I look backward to the days of cohesiveness within the ranks. With attitudes such as yours and many others, we be in deep kimshe amigo. I surrender the retort since this is going no where. Have your final word and let's move on....
v1rotate said:
My apologies old man. I mistakenly associated one irrational koolaid drinker with another. I guess the lesson is that no one knows the reason for the individual 5 year contracts at blu, except Dave of course...
But silly me. Not realizing I'm in the presence of greatness. paying the EAL assesment huh? And yet with all your experience, you couldn't crack the majors.
That's a LOOOONG time to have spent at a regional.....I lioke this part best though:
I've known people such as yourself for years and you're all the same, but I digress.
So what do yu mean by that?
By all the same do you mean we all sleep with your wife?
or we're all smarter than you?
not williing to be a lap dog?
If you have half the intellect that should be required to pilot an aircraft (then again maybe that's why the A320 won out...), then you'll listen to jbu320.
Do I "care" about blu? Not really. What I care about is the damge that will be done by what happens to you, the pilot group. Then again, past experience seems to indicate that you don't care much about what your actions do to others (8 hour rule, EMB-190 payscales)
Bus
Be careful of what you don't know, but presume to have knowledge of. JetBlue is full of fine folks, not just pilots by the way, that have decided that life at a legacy major just was not what it was cracked up to be. It's a personal choice my friend.
Beyond that, I have to thank you so very much for your concern not only for myself, but for the JetBlue pilot group in general. The knowledge that there are fine folks such as yourself willing to take the time and stand watch as an industry guardian will surely make everyone at JetBlue feel a whole lot better. And to think you don't even work for JetBlue. Truly remarkable. Your efforts are very much appreciated. Thanks again.
V1
ps - my wife misses you :wub:
Be careful of what you don't know, but presume to have knowledge of. JetBlue is full of fine folks, not just pilots by the way, that have decided that life at a legacy major just was not what it was cracked up to be. It's a personal choice my friend.
Beyond that, I have to thank you so very much for your concern not only for myself, but for the JetBlue pilot group in general. The knowledge that there are fine folks such as yourself willing to take the time and stand watch as an industry guardian will surely make everyone at JetBlue feel a whole lot better. And to think you don't even work for JetBlue. Truly remarkable. Your efforts are very much appreciated. Thanks again.
V1
ps - my wife misses you :wub:
v1rotate said:
LMAO. Kudo's on your sense of humor
I have a few friends (who are also GREAT guys) working at Blu. Yes, everyone has their share, UAL had me
. The entire point, and I think down deep you know this, is that there is only one person at Jblu (or ANY large company) that has ONLY your best interests in mind. YOU. Trust, but verify. If the five year deal is a non-event, then get rid of it. there MUST be a reason it's still there.Personally, I like ALPA in the aggregate. I think seniority is worth something, and think my furlough WAS appropriate given the situation, despite my previous "contractual rights". I HATE ALPA's politics. but I LOVE the other services they provide the profession. Should everybody be a member? In a perfect world, we would be, but ALPA ain't perfect and the world ain't either. My only point was that a national union provides some services that a local shop doesn't. They do, however, come at a cost (and not just financially). It may be better to have an inhouse "club" and contract for those services when you need them. But I'd argue that at some point you need to have some type of organization whose sole constituancy is the Pilot's at Blu.
I got another Q. Is your LOL insurance paid by Blu, and what's the payout? How long does the payout go? End of employment agreement or age 60?
Busdrvr said:
I appreciate your comments. Some of what you say actually has some merit. Don't get me wrong, there are indeed some factions and services of ALPA are are worthwhile. But as you say, I does come at a price, and I completely agree that price is not always measured in dollars. As a whole however, I have my reservations about union membership due to reasons already disscused.
About the 5 year deal. This will hopefully be the last time I address this issue. Think of the 5 year deal as the amendment date of your ALPA contract. Any union carrier signs a contract for a specific period of time. 3 years, 5 years, whatever. Does the contract expire at the end of the negotiated term. No, it simply becomes amendable. Work rules are locked in place until you can negotiate a new contract. This prinicpal works the same way with the JBLU 5 year deal. Does it expire at the end of 5 years? No, it does not. The difference here is that the agreement automaticaly renews itself. People will however have different dates of renewal and I think that's what bothers you. Remember that it doesn't bother the nearly 1000 pilots that work for JetBlue, so don't let it bother you either. Please rest assured that JBLU operates on a seniority based system just like everyone else in this business. Pilots are not going to be "dropped", out of seniority, based on the dates of individual agreements.
Regards
V1
Dizel8 said:
Although your statement is likely true (as is 'you sir have a large tool...'
), my statement you cite was part of a response to a post that attacked my industry experience and called me "son". Apparently, V1 and I have buried the hatchet and moved on. Since the remark wasn't even aimed at you, I'd suggest you do the same. Busdrivr says:" What you didn't count on is the more qualified flyers at the majors, the ones who got the job you couldn't".
Listen Sir, we have had this "discussion" before, as listed above. You persist in believing, that because once upon a time, it said UAL on your paystub, that you are better than the rest of us. As I have said before, why don't you wake up and smell the f'ing roses?
Listen Sir, we have had this "discussion" before, as listed above. You persist in believing, that because once upon a time, it said UAL on your paystub, that you are better than the rest of us. As I have said before, why don't you wake up and smell the f'ing roses?
Dizel8 said:
Quite the contrary "sir", YOU insisted long ago that YOU didn't merit the same pay as a UAL pilot doing the same job. I was in direct opposition to your belief that you were inferior (a belief you demonstrated with wages). I made the point then that we would ALL make about the same one day, and that YOU would determine that wage. You determined it. You chose your wage instead of the one at UAL and DAL. Simple as that. While I may have pontificated on what would lead a pilot to come to the conclusion that his skills were less valuable than those of a pilot at any other company, I have been extremely consistant in my view that you were just as deserving, and should be making just as much as anybody else in the industry. And as I've said repeatedly, you always beleived otherwise.
CaptianBoomer said:
Well everyone who is ever fired is fired "for cause", the question is was it "just cause"?
If they let pilots go in order to make room for new hires in order to keep their labor costs low that would be "for cause". Under "Employment at will" they can do that, your individual contracts, while enforcable, do not fall under the RLA.
Do you guys have any input on writing those contracts other than signing them?
Actually Bob, my understanding is (and Blu guys please pipe up if I'm wrong), you can be fired for cause at ANY time. You can be let go for ANY reason at the end of the contract. there need be no "cause"
