5TH week vacation coming back?

Discussion in 'Delta Air Lines' started by face, Sep 3, 2013.

  1. WorldTraveler

    WorldTraveler Corn Field

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    except they don't deliver those things....

    and I have consistently said that if DL people thought they could get a better deal, they would jump - but they haven't.

    let's also be clear... no one hates anyone because they support unions - or at least I don't.

    but let's be equally honest that the same reasons why the labor union is in decline is the same reason why DL employees have consistently voted that they don't want to change a system that has protected more jobs than any union has done in the network carrier segment of the industry and has resulted in better pay and benefits, including more job locations for DL employees than exist at any other airline.

    As much as you all like to point out the succeed of WN - which is indeed a success- the logic about unions falls apart if other similarly unionized network/legacy airlines are held up to the same standard as WN.

    When labor corrects the problems that everyone else seems to recognize but labor itself, then the movement will grow.

    But let's be clear that there were people who argued until the end that the typewriter would never become obsolete.

    Failure to adapt most certainly does lead to obsolescence.

    Failure to listen to the very real criticisms that people level against your ideas only demonstrates the fragility of one's positions.
     
  2. 700UW

    700UW Corn Field

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    Leadership 7.5,shutdown of TPA and DFW hangars, shutdown of MCO and DFW hubs and all overhaul outsourced and less ramp stations.

    Yep they sure protected jobs.
     
  3. WorldTraveler

    WorldTraveler Corn Field

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    yes, and you drag out stuff that happened 20 years ago while glossing over far larger things that have happened at other airlines more recently.

    No one at DL doubts what happened 20 years ago. They do care about what is happening now.

    DL is providing more locations for its employees to work and paying them more than their peers at other network airlines and they are handing out pay raises faster than any other airline.

    When you can start dealing with today and come up with credible evidence of how DL people are worse off today, then DL people will listen to you.


    The problem is that the evidence"" to make the claim you want to make doesn't exist which is why you keep trying to turn the clock back 20 years or more.

    DL people know it... and Kev is right that DL people have decided and will decide the future of unions at DL.

    They aren't biting.... which provides more than enough validation of the claims you are making.

    When it actually changes, let me know.
     
  4. 700UW

    700UW Corn Field

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    Compare DL and NW in Chapter 11 and see how got a better deal, you know this, as Kevin has pointed it out numerous times, yet you ignore it.
     
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  5. Kev3188

    Kev3188 Veteran

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    You bet they do. 
     
     
    ...Which is why cards for both IFS & ACS continue to stream in...
     
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  6. 700UW

    700UW Corn Field

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    http://youtu.be/1zuh8Trufjs
     
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  7. WorldTraveler

    WorldTraveler Corn Field

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    yes I know what Kev says... but neither he or you want to look at real data from the DOT that shows that DL laid off fewer people than NW or that DL people's salaries in total were cut more than DL's.
     
     
    we've heard this for years yet nothing has changed WRT representation of DL's largest employee groups. if DL people think a union can deliver better than what they have now, they will vote a union in and I will be thrilled for them and for you.

    But that isn't what is happening.

    And the fact that the labor movement has to keep reciting hearsay instead of real facts is precisely why DL people are no closer to being union represented than they were 40 years ago--- they don't want it.
     
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  8. 700UW

    700UW Corn Field

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  9. Kev3188

    Kev3188 Veteran

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    Riiiiight.    :rolleyes:
     
  10. Kev3188

    Kev3188 Veteran

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    These guys got a raw deal, plain and simple.
     
    Why didn't the company defend them? 
     
    What kind of "family" treats it's members like this?
     
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  11. 737823

    737823 Veteran

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    Wow no one will take those jokers seriously.Can hardly understand what they are saying since they are mumbling, and why does the dude need to wear sunglasses? With the vast facilities, personnel and resources the IAM Communications dept has available, I expect much better.

    So funny you posted this when Kev agreed with E that the union could do nothing to protect them anyway:

    http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/53327-3-atl-rampers-busted-in-drug-sting/

    Josh
     
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  12. Kev3188

    Kev3188 Veteran

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    I wondered how long it would be before someone made fun of them...  
     
    As for the production values, it is what it is. I'm sure that if it was a glitzy overly produced feature, then you'd be thrashing and wailing about what a waste of dues payer money it is. To be honest, these sorts of DIY clips are much more appealing to me. Real people telling real stories will always resonate more than some glossy video.
     
    Anyway...
     
     
    Lots of people take what they're saying seriously. Being falsely accused of something, and not having any recourse to defend yourself is an awful place to find yourself...
     
    And yes, a union wouldn't continue to defend someone who has been proven to have engaged in illegal activity. What they would do- and what the company failed to do here- is ensure that there was a due process to make sure without a shadow of doubt that these guys were either innocent or guilty. 
     
    So, again, why was the company so quick to wash their hands of these two? What kind of "family" does that?
     
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  13. 737823

    737823 Veteran

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    You don't know the full story or saw their personnel files, there are many facts left out here. Easy to craft an appeal when you cherry pick facts and set the stage to suit your agenda. But again, if this was happening en masse people would hear about it and swift action would be taken. The charge weren't from DL, they were from CBP/ICE/govt agency, DL's hands are tied in this situation. Not sure what you expect them to do.

    Josh
     
  14. Kev3188

    Kev3188 Veteran

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    There are?
     
    By all means fill us in...
     
  15. 737823

    737823 Veteran

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    Couldn't begin to list specifics but there are certainly more facts and details about the situation than these two gentlemen chose to share on the staged film.

    Josh
     
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