AA and Labor Negotiations-2020

[Kev3188]

Really? Industry leading?? How can you call this industry leading when you fall below in many categories.

Easy. You lie, and do it often enough that you hope people will start believing it.

On the fleet side, if taken in aggregate, it's industry standard at best.

 

[avi]

There goes swamt sounding off like he's in the aa camp. We don't know what's is the contract yet...unless you have some inside knowledge?

 

[1AA]

So we have a AIP, now it's being put together like a jigsaw puzzle. Time continues to move forward as if negotiations are continuing. We always complained in the past how much compensation we are losing on a daily basis. So know we have an AIP and it's not ready yet. So do we have a complete agreed upon AIP? In the meantime more compensational losses mount on a daily basis. Let's see how long it will be until the members go back and complain about compensational losses again since I feel this process will be a while. The psychological angle I see is that over four years of negotiations. Then we have a AIP but it's not ready probably for weeks. Then all of a sudden you have a few days to review it and one day to vote on it. The association will justify the one day vote because we all complained about mounting compensational loses during this process so here is your chance to vote and save some time. Assuming it will pass.

I've been hearing over chats that some stations in title 1 and 2 won't sign cards until this comes to pass.
This will pass. The drive has no affect on the current negotiations, AIP, voting process and outcome of the vote. The AIP and the entire process has a direct affect on the drive because guys just won't sign and are holding out. We all agree the dysfunctional association has to go.
So sign a card or else the drive will stall at some point or at some stations were extra effort needs to be put forth. It's a waste of resources, time, people's time away from their family to prove in person what you can read for yourself on the internet or discuss on various chats. The holdouts who refuse to sign for the reason mentioned are not helping the profession, their fellow members and themselves. The association is hoping guys don't sign to save dues losses. That's the only reason. The association doesn't care much of title 1 and 2 when they appoint a fleet service yes man to negotiate for us and lockout our title 1 and 2 guys from direct negotiations. Sign a card. One has nothing to do with the other.
Thank you and may we succeed in our goal to separate ourselves from the dysfunctional association once and for all.

 

[1AA]

"Our next task is to work with our attorneys to finalize the language that properly protects our industry leading 401(k) contributions, pension contributions, and profit sharing."

Really? Industry leading?? How can you call this industry leading when you fall below in many categories. Well short of Delta, Southwest, UPS and I think even UAL in PS paid out. Below Southwest, UPS (not sure about Delta and UAL) in 401K matches, with Southwest at 9.3% and UPS doesn't have to even match. And they still fall behind in their pension contributions. Again UPS is the winner here.
They can call it industry leading all they want to----it IS NOT.

"The final piece of the JCBA will be to reach an implementation schedule with the company. We all expect the benefits of these bargaining sessions to come to us as quickly and as reasonably as possible. This is not assured without written agreements outlining the timeframes of when the changes will start."

Wouldn't that be DOS? Helloooo. I agree with the previous post, this sounds like another move on delaying certain items getting starting dates different from the DOS. When does it stop???

"Your continued patience and support is appreciated – it is what got us here. This industry best contract will prove that the time it has taken was worth it!"

And again they are trying to call it "industry best contract". They know good and well it IS NOT industry leading falling behind in several areas including pay, 401K, pension, retirement, medical, vac, sick accrual, personal time off, etc... I can't wait to hear how they will explain this is an ILC and best in the industry as they quoted above. If they think this is industry leading, it's time to replace them. Any fool can see this.

What if the attorney's disagree with some language that is a major issue? Do we go back and renegotiate those specific issues? Then more time down the road before a vote. What if there are major issues and the association decides not to correct it because it will open up a can of worms? There should be no major issues or issues that adversely affect the membership if negotiations was done properly in the first place. This last update stinks. I see the devil in the writing.

 

[1AA]

Easy. You lie, and do it often enough that you hope people will start believing it.

On the fleet side, if taken in aggregate, it's industry standard at best.

So what happened to ILC as promised? The Association and the members whored themselves out of desperation. One thinks that this was the plan all along.

 

[Duke787]

Has anybody found out what the TWU AMTs are giving up to supplement IAM AMTs coveted health insurance for 5 years. That’s expensive to the company especially since the pilots and FAs will expect that also, the association (TWU side) had to give up something for that since we aren’t getting as rich as contract as the IAM side.

I definitely don’t want to hear some union goof going on a tirade spouting union rhetoric about how the company is trying to divide us and we all need to stick together.

Between the formation of association (2unions with different priorities, without membership vote)the AIP which is better for the IAM minority of at the expense of TWU majority. This done by union leadership/negotiating team not membership or AA. How are we suppose to be one union speaking as one. I see nothing but divisiveness for the next 10 years at least, 5 years of new contract (if it passes) and 5 years of negotiations for the next contract.

 

[V.O. Reason]

Has anybody found out what the TWU AMTs are giving up to supplement IAM AMTs coveted health insurance for 5 years. That’s expensive to the company especially since the pilots and FAs will expect that also, the association (TWU side) had to give up something for that since we aren’t getting as rich as contract as the IAM side.

I definitely don’t want to hear some union goof going on a tirade spouting union rhetoric about how the company is trying to divide us and we all need to stick together.

Between the formation of association (2unions with different priorities, without membership vote)the AIP which is better for the IAM minority of at the expense of TWU majority. This done by union leadership/negotiating team not membership or AA. How are we suppose to be one union speaking as one. I see nothing but divisiveness for the next 10 years at least, 5 years of new contract (if it passes) and 5 years of negotiations for the next contract.

I think you will find the expense of the IAM insurance will not cost much to the company considering we loose the 100 percent and 90 percent in each of the coming years I also expect our overall cost will increase so before you cry what you didn’t get at least you don’t have to stay in the looser IAMPF

 

[1AA]

Has anybody found out what the TWU AMTs are giving up to supplement IAM AMTs coveted health insurance for 5 years. That’s expensive to the company especially since the pilots and FAs will expect that also, the association (TWU side) had to give up something for that since we aren’t getting as rich as contract as the IAM side.

I definitely don’t want to hear some union goof going on a tirade spouting union rhetoric about how the company is trying to divide us and we all need to stick together.

Between the formation of association (2unions with different priorities, without membership vote)the AIP which is better for the IAM minority of at the expense of TWU majority. This done by union leadership/negotiating team not membership or AA. How are we suppose to be one union speaking as one. I see nothing but divisiveness for the next 10 years at least, 5 years of new contract (if it passes) and 5 years of negotiations for the next contract.

Over four years of worthless negotiations. We got back what Jim Little took away from the TWU in 2003. Well almost. No seven weeks vacation, no off shift training overtime, no longevity pay, no guaranteed four early call in, no laundered uniforms, no easy hour, We didn't even get an ILC. The IAM managed to keep their IAMPF and medical but I'm sure the devil is in the writing when we get to see it. Hopefully before the MAX gets to flap its wings again. Nothing to brag about. So I ask the guys who are holding out for the contract to pass just sign a card now. Waiting does nothing to help our cause. The contract is done. No ILC. It will pass. We are all hungry for the money. The money is there. The scope not so from what I've read so far. This one is a done deal. Let's work on the next done deal. Removing the dysfunctional association from the title 1 and 2 groups.

 

[NYer]

Which april are we referring too? This one or the next one....

This one, it would be too late for the next one.

 

[Filter]

Over four years of worthless negotiations. We got back what Jim Little took away from the TWU in 2003. Well almost. No seven weeks vacation, no off shift training overtime, no longevity pay, no guaranteed four early call in, no laundered uniforms, no easy hour, We didn't even get an ILC. The IAM managed to keep their IAMPF and medical but I'm sure the devil is in the writing when we get to see it. Hopefully before the MAX gets to flap its wings again. Nothing to brag about. So I ask the guys who are holding out for the contract to pass just sign a card now. Waiting does nothing to help our cause. The contract is done. No ILC. It will pass. We are all hungry for the money. The money is there. The scope not so from what I've read so far. This one is a done deal. Let's work on the next done deal. Removing the dysfunctional association from the title 1 and 2 groups.

...12 sick days/year...agreed

 

[InfoSeeker]

I think you will find the expense of the IAM insurance will not cost much to the company considering we loose the 100 percent and 90 percent in each of the coming years I also expect our overall cost will increase so before you cry what you didn’t get at least you don’t have to stay in the looser IAMPF

If you look at the documents that were written when the Association was established, the main reason for having the Asssociation was to preserve and possibly expand the IAMPF.

 

[swamt]

Easy. You lie, and do it often enough that you hope people will start believing it.

On the fleet side, if taken in aggregate, it's industry standard at best.

Yup! Just like Q#5 on the Asso. Q&A. Not so sure about your industry standard on the fleet side Kev. Look for more to be given up in scope and other language when you guys get the full details.

There goes swamt sounding off like he's in the aa camp. We don't know what's is the contract yet...unless you have some inside knowledge?

The devil will be in the details. Watch and learn come T/A day. It happens every new contract with these two unions, why would they stop now?

What if the attorney's disagree with some language that is a major issue? Do we go back and renegotiate those specific issues? Then more time down the road before a vote. What if there are major issues and the association decides not to correct it because it will open up a can of worms? There should be no major issues or issues that adversely affect the membership if negotiations was done properly in the first place. This last update stinks. I see the devil in the writing.

I don't see this asso. going back and renegotiating if flaws are found. Now major issues? Depends on what they are, but I still will say this asso. will make some sort of back door deal (as they have already) to gets those issues settled quickly and out for a vote. You are correct. there "SHOULD BE NO ISSUES" especially since they already announced it as an AIP. However the In Principle part gives them and the co. an out for changes to be made before calling it a T/A. Once it is voted on as a T/A then that means both sides fully agree and no further changes can be made. I still wouldn't put it pass this two unions though.
As far as the timeframe; I am no fan of voting yes just to just move on. If I was a voter in this case I would be a no, as I expect to be made whole, and I wouldn't care how much longer it would take. Before you say it, Yes, I do understand the big difference in representation and the faith in the nego's not being able to do so at AA, and that is a very, very big factor why most you guys will let it go thru, my opinion.
I really do hope the holdouts become card signers when this contract is done and completed. Although it is NOT ILC, maybe it is just time to move on as long as you guys can move on with a new C&C representational union.

 

[title 2]

If you look at the documents that were written when the Association was established, the main reason for having the Asssociation was to preserve and possibly expand the IAMPF.

you put me in the IAMPF and i guarantee i vote NO the 9% 401k is not industry leading but is ten times better than the IAMPF ever will or could be

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

you put me in the IAMPF and i guarantee i vote NO the 9% 401k is not industry leading but is ten times better than the IAMPF ever will or could be

Title 2, depending on what language there is with regards to your group, I would not put it past the association to put you or some of your fellow title 2 mechanics into the IAMPF. I can tell you that they are sticking title 1 mechanics training dept. and planners into that.

In order for that NOT to happen we can just do away with the association, then the TWU & IAM will be gone for our Class and craft.

Sign an AMFA card help get you and I a Bargaining unit which represents US.

 

[Paul Too]

Title 2, depending on what language there is with regards to your group, I would not put it past the association to put you or some of your fellow title 2 mechanics into the IAMPF. I can tell you that they are sticking title 1 mechanics training dept. and planners into that.

In order for that NOT to happen we can just do away with the association, then the TWU & IAM will be gone for our Class and craft.

Sign an AMFA card help get you and I a Bargaining unit which represents US.

I can see the company maybe putting new hires and/or low time employees into the pension fund, not short timers or high time employees.