AA and Labor Negotiations-2020

[swamt]

I should have added, speaking of health ins. "That’s expensive to the company especially since the pilots and FAs will expect that also" ALL association members would expect the same insurance as the IAM members, since we are ALL one union, unless that rhetoric doesn't apply anymore. Unless my union dues are going to go down or the association is going to cut the TWU majority members a check for $4k each, I think the TWU members are being treated as B scale association members.

Question for SWA mech, for all the AMFA contracts is there a seperate benefits package for certain mechanics? Has there ever been a contract where some members get less in benefit coverage? I know we use to have a B scale pay wise, but all unions have gotten away from that, maybe this is the new form a Bscale, unfortunately this will effect the TWU union members who have worked for the AA for 20 30 years and more, having sacrificed for the airline during the toughest of times in the airline industry only to be forced into an association that doesn't give equal representation to the TWU majority members of association.

If this treatment isn't making all association members sign an AMFA card, nothing will.

Duke, I agree with your post. It definitely would be like you say as the IAM is in full control rather the TWU'ers want to admit it or not. So therefore they see how they will get treated each and every contract in the future while being represented by the IAM----Or rather asso.
Now to your questions. No. There are no separate benefits for certain or different mechanics. Except for the Lic. prem rules. Meaning PM, FM, GSE and any other mechs not utilizing their A&P's will not get the A&P lic prem., however, they do receive certain skill level premiums attached to their job class type of mechanics.
No. There has never been a contract where some members get less in benefit coverage. The only diff in benefit coverage for any mechs is the waiting periods for vac's and time to get to fully vested---but we all had that as well when we were all new hires.
Our co. tried to get us on a A-B scale for pay. That does nothing but divide the mechs so AMFA said NO WAY. The co. then dropped it and never brought it up again after several guys that came here from other airlines made statements to the co. about how big of a NO DEAL A-B scales are.
Duke, the mere fact that this asso. is dividing the coverage amongst IAM and TWU differently is just another divisional method used by companies and I cannot fathom why in the world this asso. is agreeing to such disastrous type of language, and as we can all see this will continue for many future contracts IF the mechanics allow it to continue.
With AMFA it does not matter what type of mechanic you are, there are no different benefits to divide the mechs. Thx for that question and clarification.
I agree that this type of treatment and representation should get all mechs to sign cards, and if they don't, then they deserve the continuation of leaving it stuck up their arses for all future contracts with this asso and these two industrial unions TWU/IAM. The IAM will rule the roost on all parameters going forward and this was the biggest example you all could have been given. So take charge and get your fellow type mechs to get onboard or be stuck with what they just experienced for the past 5 years.

 

[swamt]

I agree 100% with you AMFA in Miami! There seems to be some chatter on these boards suggesting that the TWU employees may not have a choice but be forced into the IAMPF.

That would NOT be good. But, hasn't this asso. made promises before? In a way (no offence guys) I kind of hope they say they will be forced into the IAMPF. Maybe it will open some eyes up wide...

 

[1AA]

AMFA represents two title groups who are represented at the negotiations by their own title groups respectively. The dysfunctional association has a fleet service representative representing the same title groups that AMFA represents themselves. Does that sound confusing?

In other words no fleet service representative will ever represent either title 1 or title 2 at the negotiating table with AMFA.
The dysfunctional association believes one size fits all. AMFA will never and can not because of its class and craft certification as well as its constitutional bylaws as written. Sign a card and see what real serious open negotiations are like come next negotiations.

 

[2ndGENAMT]

I'm not a facebook person, who wrote this?

Someone named Baskett from 141.

 

[swamt]

Briefing for 2/24/2020



NEGOTIATIONS UPDATE: Hi everyone, just wanted to update you on what is going on now with our AIP, and what you can expect next.
However I first want to explain a little on what has been going on the last several weeks since the announcement of our AIP ( agreement in principle ).
If you will recall, several months ago in one of my briefings, I stated that once you reach a point in negotiations and you have passed articles back and forth several times, that both the company and union agree to stop the unnecessary passes back and forth, and continue negotiating across the table verbally until a agreement could be reached on a article. Then, either the company or union would put the verbal agreements in writing in a written proposal.

Well this is how the last several months of negotiations leading up to the AIP took place. All the remaining issues ( mostly the big cost items ) were mostly verbally discussed back and forth between the two sides, with both parties taking the detailed notes on the issues.
Once these remaining issues were agreed to verbally by both sides, then the AIP was announced.

So for the last several weeks, the company and association has now been writing the language of those verbal discussions. Some articles, we already had something to work off of. EX: Lets say we took the scope article that the company placed on jetnet. We would then take that language and change or add or delete from the jetnet proposal. These changes would come from the verbal agreements done the last several months to that article.
Some articles like scope we had something to work with, but others had much more language that needed to be written.

And as usual when writing language, you sometimes will have the sides not agreeing exactly on what is suppose to go into the article.
The good news these small disagreements are just that... small. They have not or do not change what has been put out in the highlight sheet for our members to read. However these discussions still take place and are time consuming to say the least.

Also at this same time, as soon as a team from the association and company get language completed on a article, we then hand it down to another team that has been going over the language and proofreading for any errors.

This basically, as short as possible, is a explanation on what has been going on since the AIP was announced.

We have worked too long and spent too much time on this agreement, to not do the necessary work that must be done to make sure we have the contract we have stated in the highlight sheet. So we will take whatever time it takes to get this language correct.

Hopefully the language will be finished this week in the meetings between the association and company. Then next week, we can finish the final proofreading and also the IMPLEMENTATION DATES.

IMPLEMENTATION DATES: This is probably by far the most important thing yet to be done before we can put out a full contract for your viewing.
While pay, and other things will take place right away or fairly quickly once the agreement is ratified, there are other things the company and union will have to discuss and come to an agreement on the respective implementation dates.
Probably the biggest issue for implementation will be getting everyone moved and programmed into the work brain computer system.
Having everyone under one system will drive many things of the contract, and exactly when those certain things can take place.
Of course we want everything done right away. However that is just not possible when dealing with two different systems and bringing everyone under one.
So we will discuss these issues as well as many others with the company, and set dates for deadlines on when things must be implemented and take effect.
This like I said, can hopefully be done next week.

WHATS NEXT: Once everything above gets done, the company will then send the contract as a whole to the printers to have a copy printed for every member. At this same time, the association will place the full contract online to be viewed and downloaded. YES, a full printed copy will be mailed to each employees address on file with the company. So you might want to check and make sure you have the correct address on file.

We do not have to wait for our members to receive the full agreement in the mail to start our roadshows, since it will be available online for download.
Some of you, depending on when we get to your station, will have your mailed agreement in hand. But others might have to download a copy if we are at your location before you receive your copy in the mail.
I do not know at this time, or do I want to speak on behalf of my TWU counterparts on when of if every station will be briefed with a roadshow.
However, I have gave my word for the stations that I am assigned to, that a visit from at least myself ( maybe others on the team ) will be set to discuss the agreement as a whole and to answer all your questions prior to a vote.
If all the above goes as planned, my roadshows will start in clt on March 16 & 17, and I will set dates for my other locations from there. Please note that these dates are subject to change based on how the next couple of weeks go. Im just trying to give everyone a idea of a time frame.
I have been told so far, that we would have about a two week period to get the roadshows done ( again subject to change ). With a vote scheduled for soon after.
That is all the info I have on the vote right now, because I don't think all the info on voting is set at this time.

ANSWERING YOUR QUESTIONS: Whether or not I am assigned to your respective station to answer questions, it is always my intention to make sure everyone if possible is fully informed before you vote. Many of you have my cell and can text or call, but another way you can get in touch with me with questions is go to our clt Facebook page at " I Am Fleet Service Charlotte NC " I monitor that sight daily to answer members questions. So please care to get the correct information and don't go with rumors. Just send a request to join, and I will get you on. Usually its in the evening hours before I have time to get on, so just give me some time to respond.
Sorry for the long briefing, but just trying to get the info out as I know it at this time.

EVERYONE HAVE A GOOD AND SAFE WEEK

Not signed. Who wrote this? And NOT on the asso. update website. Not saying this guy is not legit, but who the hell wrote it?
Read carefully guys. 1AA was correct a while back. They do NOT have full agreements only verbal, they are still nego the final "written" language as we speak. What a cluster fk.
And still no date, or how you guys will vote. 2 weeks for the road show and only "ONE" day to vote. Pathetic. The reason they are not telling you guys that it's only one day is to keep you all calm and content.
And for this guy to admit that not all nego members will visit all cities or stations is pathetic as well. You must give each and every individual out there a chance to attend the roadshows in every city and or stations period. If you can't do this, and maybe add a full month instead of just 2 weeks for the roadshow like AMFA did then it's time to replace these guys.

 

[swamt]

But we need you. We want you. We like you. Help us ...............

https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/fi...s/critical/2019/iam-national-pension-fund.pdf

"This is to inform you that on March 29, 2019 the actuary for the IAM National Pension Fund ("Fund") certified to the U.S. Department of the Treasury, and also to the Board of Trustees, that the Fund is in endangered status for the plan year beginning January 1, 2019, and that it is projected to be in critical status in one of the succeeding five plan years."

HAD ENOUGH YET???
I tried warning you guys of this. And this will go into future years (up to 5) as stated. Run--RUN like hell from this IAMPF...

 

[swamt]

The "penalty hour" is in the AIP per Gary Shiable. Only difference is, I'm pretty sure he used the term: "seven for 90". Loosely translated: punch out seven minutes late for 1 hour of OT pay.

But no one knows for sure, they are still nego language to be put in writing per the unsigned briefing. Look for it when the details come out.

 

[V.O. Reason]

The update is legit, I received the email from Baskett as I’m on the email list
So while I don’t trust it all it’s likely pretty accurate on the next steps

 

[swamt]

AMFA represents two title groups who are represented at the negotiations by their own title groups respectively. The dysfunctional association has a fleet service representative representing the same title groups that AMFA represents themselves. Does that sound confusing?

In other words no fleet service representative will ever represent either title 1 or title 2 at the negotiating table with AMFA.
The dysfunctional association believes one size fits all. AMFA will never and can not because of its class and craft certification as well as its constitutional bylaws as written. Sign a card and see what real serious open negotiations are like come next negotiations.

CORRECT.
And may I add to it. With the 4 late groups that just came into AMFA as we were already knee deep in nego's, with each group AMFA brought in professional advisors from each of these groups to the nego table to better represent those groups that came in late so the were properly represented and not a mechanic nego for an instructor, MC, FM etc... Same reason you guys don't want a fleet service or bus union guy representing you mechanics at AA. AMFA is smart enough to bring in the professionals to work in the best interest of the employee groups being represented. How bout that for leaving your ego at the door and doing the right thing.

 

[swamt]

I'm not a facebook person, who wrote this?

i'm not a facebook person either, but i'm 99.9% sure that is from the poster charlie brown. iam fleet negotiator.



i thought i saw AMTs and stores getting the penalty hour back. it didn't look like fleet is getting that back from the bullet-point sheet that emerged on the night of the AIP.

the fact that it's called an 'easy hour' and not a 'penalty hour' tells you who was negotiating for the assoc.

Someone named Baskett from 141.

The point here? Someone asked who wrote it? !st answer was Charlie Brown. Now some are saying someone named Basket. Which is it? You just gotta love this. This why someone should always sign what they posted as an official document, especially with so much info., except for when, where and HOW the vote will take place. More like Basket case if ya ask me...

The update is legit, I received the email from Baskett as I’m on the email list
So while I don’t trust it all it’s likely pretty accurate on the next steps

 

[Racer X]

The point here? Someone asked who wrote it? !st answer was Charlie Brown. Now some are saying someone named Basket. Which is it? You just gotta love this. This why someone should always sign what they posted as an official document, especially with so much info., except for when, where and HOW the vote will take place. More like Basket case if ya ask me...

This is EXACTLY the reason someone from SW should stick to SW issues and stay out of AA talks. LOL.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

The point here? Someone asked who wrote it? !st answer was Charlie Brown. Now some are saying someone named Basket. Which is it? You just gotta love this. This why someone should always sign what they posted as an official document, especially with so much info., except for when, where and HOW the vote will take place. More like Basket case if ya ask me...

well...i think his real name is charlie brown and his posting forum name is baskett.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

If the Company would "Freeze" the cost of our contribution for the insurance at a very minimum, for the duration of this pending contract, it would make the pill easier to swallow for the LAA side. I also don't hear anyone from the LUS side saying that the LAA side should have our insurance too if "we" are supposed to be an equal Team.........I don't want to hear the LUS comeback "well, we're stuck with the IAMPF" because there are many of you that don't want to get out of it!

i believe it was prez that wrote a short tidbit that in essence; "we tried to get all on lus insurance, company refused".

i believe the iam people have been smart. they don't post as often and the smart move would be to tell lus not to antagonize...don't stir up a hornet's nest.

i don't believe they are a$$holes, we know some are sympathetic (robbed).

imagine paying the twu dues all these years and this is how they represent/defend/protect us.

 

[1AA]

Guys don't be fooled again by the dysfunctional association. We do not have any agreement yet. The updates says it all if you really want to pay attention. The association and company are still writing/finalizing the agreement or articles. That's called negotiations.
First we cried about the money. So they shut us up with the raise and they got fleet integration. Then they shut us up again when it went public we have a AIP or T/A. We don't have anything final yet. The dysfunctional association said that after all the language is done they will let the lawyers look at it. Then it will be finalized for membership viewing and voting. That my fellow union members is called negotiations. That is exactly where we are today. Still negotiating. Yes we are closer to a final AIP or T/A but we have nothing yet to brag about. This made the association and company look good to the public and share holders but we are still not at the finish line. Now I wonder how much longer this process is going to take until we finally get to vote on a JCBA. The APA are in the thick of negotiations as well. My opinion why the announcement of a AIP came out. Calm the troops. I call bull on this to the dysfunctional association.

 

[swamt]

well...i think his real name is charlie brown and his posting forum name is baskett.

Ok. I can understand that answer. But believe me, these unions have a record of not signing their memos, updates and other "official" documents in the past. And Do not do face book and never will.