AA and Labor Negotiations-2020

[CremaDiLimone]

i'm laa and not sure where you picked up that i want laa to get less??

as far as a 'bonus' - what i'm saying is that the new hires will have plenty of time to make money with the new oil realities. if the shale oil revolution occurred in the 1980s, all of us in this industry would be much better off financially.

i can even argue that what assoc. laa members lost financially in 2011 and STILL haven't recovered, has obviously benefited the company financially...allowing them to hire more people, who will be working for an airline that won't bend or snap due to energy issues - unlike our years in this industry.

sorry, i'll never buy into the argument that i'm not a union guy because i want a 32 year member to get $8,000 signing bonus and a 4 year union member to get $1,000.

how much did the 32 year guy lose since 2003 and 2011 and how much has the 32 year guy paid in dues compared to the 4 year guy? sorry.

as far as IGM..i've read some posts about not caring about retro, give me a huge buyout so i can retire.

go after them.

 

[dfw gen]

You would think with all the pressure and comments from the membership, you would think someone would stick their heads outside the door and tell the peons something....
But when there is no accoutability why bother?

 

[AANOTOK]

I agree no group should have to wait on another

In some strange twisted way, that’s probably what our great leaders and negotiators are calling leverage. All for one or none for all.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

i'm laa and not sure where you picked up that i want laa to get less??

as far as a 'bonus' - what i'm saying is that the new hires will have plenty of time to make money with the new oil realities. if the shale oil revolution occurred in the 1980s, all of us in this industry would be much better off financially.

i can even argue that what assoc. laa members lost financially in 2011 and STILL haven't recovered, has obviously benefited the company financially...allowing them to hire more people, who will be working for an airline that won't bend or snap due to energy issues - unlike our years in this industry.

sorry, i'll never buy into the argument that i'm not a union guy because i want a 32 year member to get $8,000 signing bonus and a 4 year union member to get $1,000.

how much did the 32 year guy lose since 2003 and 2011 and how much has the 32 year guy paid in dues compared to the 4 year guy? sorry.

as far as IGM..i've read some posts about not caring about retro, give me a huge buyout so i can retire.

go after them.

I just want to get this straight because you took it in the shorts the new guys should. He/she should be punished for hiring on with AA and because you had a weak Union that is more company friendly than any other. The newer employees should suffer like you WOW!

They are going to take 8-9 yrs to top out, with your 32 yrs I would bet you topped out in 5. Then the guys who hired in after you had to wait 12yrs until the 1991 contract which made all of the rest of us work an extra yr to be vested in the pension. Typical AA Blue blood thinking. Every NEGATIVE that has happened in OUR industry started here at AA because of thinking like that. With the buyout there will be stipulations I hope you meet them. I have 41 yrs in the industry AA is the ONLY place I have worked that each person is out for themselves IGM. Taught by the TWU, That just another reason the TWU needs to Go...

 

[iluvaa]

I just want to get this straight because you took it in the shorts the new guys should. He/she should be punished for hiring on with AA and because you had a weak Union that is more company friendly than any other. The newer employees should suffer like you WOW!

They are going to take 8-9 yrs to top out, with your 32 yrs I would bet you topped out in 5. Then the guys who hired in after you had to wait 12yrs until the 1991 contract which made all of the rest of us work an extra yr to be vested in the pension. Typical AA Blue blood thinking. Every NEGATIVE that has happened in OUR industry started here at AA because of thinking like that. With the buyout there will be stipulations I hope you meet them. I have 41 yrs in the industry AA is the ONLY place I have worked that each person is out for themselves IGM. Taught by the TWU, That just another reason the TWU needs to Go...

Took me 13 years to top out hired in 97

 

[Talos]

I just want to get this straight because you took it in the shorts the new guys should. He/she should be punished for hiring on with AA and because you had a weak Union that is more company friendly than any other. The newer employees should suffer like you WOW!

They are going to take 8-9 yrs to top out, with your 32 yrs I would bet you topped out in 5. Then the guys who hired in after you had to wait 12yrs until the 1991 contract which made all of the rest of us work an extra yr to be vested in the pension. Typical AA Blue blood thinking. Every NEGATIVE that has happened in OUR industry started here at AA because of thinking like that. With the buyout there will be stipulations I hope you meet them. I have 41 yrs in the industry AA is the ONLY place I have worked that each person is out for themselves IGM. Taught by the TWU, That just another reason the TWU needs to Go...

Actually AA has a long history of new guys getting the short end of the stick. We had b scale in the 80's, junior fleet service in the 90's, and after 9/11 the people who were not topped out had a longer wait to top out. I think attitudes changed when we had the 13 or so years of a pay cut and the frozen pension. Almost all carriers screwed their workers but now seeing them make more in a year then they made in 10 makes it worse. Throw in an absurd union situation and a mgmt group that acts like employees are a liability and there you have it. If the AMT's have success in their card drive I think they will be much better off. It has gotten really hard to think positive with the situation as is.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Took me 13 years to top out hired in 97

iluvaa, Not sure what station or dept. you hired in at but I hired in to AA in 98 at LAX, it took me less than 5 yrs due to the step program. So I can't see how it took you 13? The 91 contract took the ABCD scales which most were unhappy with and set the top out at 5yrs. That is when AA set the vesting at 6yrs.
Federal law changed vesting from 10yrs to 5yrs Jan. 1989. I was at Eastern Airlines then.I had a chance to hire in early 1989 but when told about the 12yr top out and the starting pay. I along with others passed.

 

[iluvaa]

iluvaa, Not sure what station or dept. you hired in at but I hired in to AA in 98 at LAX, it took me less than 5 yrs due to the step program. So I can't see how it took you 13? The 91 contract took the ABCD scales which most were unhappy with and set the top out at 5yrs. That is when AA set the vesting at 6yrs.
Federal law changed vesting from 10yrs to 5yrs Jan. 1989. I was at Eastern Airlines then.I had a chance to hire in early 1989 but when told about the 12yr top out and the starting pay. I along with others passed.

Tulsa got a rif in 2003 stayed in shop until 2010

 

[iluvaa]

iluvaa, Not sure what station or dept. you hired in at but I hired in to AA in 98 at LAX, it took me less than 5 yrs due to the step program. So I can't see how it took you 13? The 91 contract took the ABCD scales which most were unhappy with and set the top out at 5yrs. That is when AA set the vesting at 6yrs.
Federal law changed vesting from 10yrs to 5yrs Jan. 1989. I was at Eastern Airlines then.I had a chance to hire in early 1989 but when told about the 12yr top out and the starting pay. I along with others passed.

Oh and was hired as a srp then junior mechanic all to keep wages down for as long as possible

 

[Filter]

iluvaa, Not sure what station or dept. you hired in at but I hired in to AA in 98 at LAX, it took me less than 5 yrs due to the step program. So I can't see how it took you 13? The 91 contract took the ABCD scales which most were unhappy with and set the top out at 5yrs. That is when AA set the vesting at 6yrs.
Federal law changed vesting from 10yrs to 5yrs Jan. 1989. I was at Eastern Airlines then.I had a chance to hire in early 1989 but when told about the 12yr top out and the starting pay. I along with others passed.

I’m guessing iluvaa is fleet service and not an AMT.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I just want to get this straight because you took it in the shorts the new guys should.

how would the new hires 'take it in the shorts' if the signing bonus was determined by years of service?

He/she should be punished for hiring on with AA

that's interesting that you see that as a punishment and not a reward..a reward for those who have endured.

why aren't you suggesting all fleet earn $24/hr, so all new hires can earn $24/hr?? why punish them and make them wait?

They are going to take 8-9 yrs to top out, with your 32 yrs I would bet you topped out in 5. Then the guys who hired in after you had to wait 12yrs until the 1991 contract which made all of the rest of us work an extra yr to be vested in the pension.

you lost me here.

- i started out earning $6.80-something (with differential). new hires after this deal will start out at apprx. $15/hr? ok.

- it took me longer than 5 years to max out. i had maxed out and went $5/hr backwards in 2003. from 2003-2016, i went from $24.something/hr to $19.something/hr to today's $30.80-something/hr.

that's 13 years.

in 13 years, new hires today with a new contract will go from $15/hr to $40/hr and beyond???

when they get decent profit sharing we'll be long gone.

- there was no contract in 1991. contracts in 83(b scale)-89 (c scale)-95 (jr. fleet)-01. b and c scales. jr. fleet service.

i guess all of those people are a$$holes today not to get rewarded with the first decent contract in nearly 20 years (2001-2020) with a signing bonus based on years of service???

that bothers you? ok. too bad. it doesn't bother me.

With the buyout there will be stipulations I hope you meet them.

i'm not going anywhere. i'm going to enjoy working for the new aa.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

iluvaa & cremadilimone, Just because you both worked/started as an srp or a junior because you had NO aircraft maintenance experience, The guys with line experience outside of Tulsa had a different route. Working in the shop got you started and the line guys worked for pea patch outfits with no insurance or vacation at places like batch air or Kaleta, Tower, etc...That is why for years the TWU ruled the roost, Keeping T-town above the rest of the system. Many guys took a layoff in 2001-2003. Some took the street others bumped around the system for yrs. We all have taken cuts here at AA since. Time for ALL to stand together, build better future for the mechanics of AA title 1 & Title 2 and whatever the shop/overhaul guys are called these days. "Union" Make life better. that is Now and for the future. You enjoy your life because of the fight from the early airline workers. Do the same for the guys who follow us.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Oh and was hired as a srp then junior mechanic all to keep wages down for as long as possible

If you had your A&P and had some type of work experience you could of hired on as a Full mechanic. Then your route to the top would have been different. and the yrs taken to get to the top would of been less as well. You got your training here at AA others did it other places with little to NO safety precautions and proper tooling. Not just here in the airline biz did unions set up for the future guys. That is something the TWU has never taught. Screw the new guys they should suffer as we did has been the mantra here. Time to change that way of thinking..

 

[Tim Nelson]

the assoc. should be fighting for both.

no retro = new precedent set. i still have 1 or 2 more contracts after this. no retro means the company can balk for years and then offer a chintzy 'bonus'.

no way should new hires get the same as others who gave back and then got wind-beaten waiting for some candy since late 2015...especially the laa personnel.

the company gave the ticket agents 2.5% a year the last 2 years of their deal and this was before they made the billions in 2016-2017-2018-2019.

stingy.

The company set money aside and used a method where lus ft gets $6,000. All lus pt $3000. Twu gets half.
Alot of the old time mechanics were furious since they would get the same bonus as a 1 year bag smasher.
So it became a mess and so the union suggested to the company that it just give the money to the union and the union will provide a retro methodology. To make the math work, the first year only had a 1% imputed raise, the second year was 1.5% and all thereafter 2.5%.
The union will hold back 10% for any discrepencies (basically skimming off the top). In application, 75% of fleet will now get less than the original.
Basically FT topped out will get around 3,000, FT who arent topped out will only get an avg of 1,000. Cut all this in half for part time.
Mechanics will get more than original amounts due to retro being based on wage.
Consider all of the above as hearsay till confirmed but also note that the blue fairy was also the one who broke the news about delta profit sharing, the loss of D3, and the introduction of retro.

 

[UPNAWAY]

The entire history and to a large degree point of unions is for the new guy to take it in the shorts.