AA short haul and Eagles future Competitor

[Bob Owens]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/40492239#40492239

Hmm, if you were going from NY to Boston or Washington DC what would you choose? Take a taxi out to JFK, leave your house at least two hours before the flight, go though security, get crammed into a tiny seat, maybe leave on time then find your way from DCA to city center , elapsed time at least four hours from when you left your house, (not much shorter than just driving point to point)
or take High Speed rail right from city center to city center?
High speed rail will be safer, more dependable, more efficient ,greener and possibly even quicker than flying on short haul trips.

I'm sure our tools will work just as well on trains as planes.

 

[Rogallo]

High speed rail in the US has been long overdue.

 

[Frank Szabo]

High speed rail in the US has been long overdue.

... but hasn't been pushed because it's more profitable for some industries (oil/gas, airline and auto) to ignore it. The infrastructure doesn't exist and would take years to build, mainly because the government has no regulations in place to handle it.

Grade crossings would have to be replaced and track upgraded/laid to accomodate the high-speed trains. All that would be necessary to make the switch would cut into the politicians' "earnings" (lobbying and bribes).

Nice thought, though - it would be rather comical to hear BNSF execs threaten to take their work to China.

 

[jimntx]

They've been talking about a high-speed triangle rail system connecting Dallas, Houston, San Antonio and Austin since at least the 1980's. IIRC it was originally proposed in the 1970's after the first oil embargo and gas prices shot up to $0.50/gal! The auto and road construction (and airline, I'm sure) lobbies have successfully prevented the project from being funded so far. After all, it was supposed to give you Dallas-Houston, city center to city center in a little over two hours. Or, about the time it would take you to drive from downtown Dallas to DFW in rush hour, park, go through security and check in at your gate, and maybe get into the air.

When Houston wanted to build a light rail line serving a major traffic corridor in SW Houston--low cost, using existing railroad right-of-way, Tom DeLay successfully blocked all Federal funding for it as long as he was in Congress. The city went ahead and built a demo line from downtown through the Medical Center to the Astrodome. I heard from a friend who still lives there that it's been successful even beyond the proponents expectations. People who work downtown do NOT want to pay downtown parking prices if they can avoid it.

I wouldn't hold my breath until we see high-speed rail version of the City of New Orleans.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< -------China has to do something with all those American dollars they have coming out of their ears from all those "Made in China" products we can't get away from! --------- So they build high speed trains with our money! -------Thank you Washington for giving us "free trade" vs "Fair Trade"!

 

[eolesen]

High speed rail is a pipe dream in all but a couple places (BOS-NYC-WAS, and maybe SFO-LAX-SAN) where there's a population density to support it. I'm all for investing in rail infrastructure, especially if it helps take trucks off the road, but most of the money being poured into projects in Florida, Illinois, Wisconsin is just pork.

It's money that would be better spent by just giving it to Amtrak and the freight railroads, because they're going to be the real beneficiaries.

Supposed HSR upgrades between Chicago and St. Louis were nothing more than "shovel ready" ARRA projects that Obama gladly sent back home, but everyone who thinks about it for more than 60 seconds will quickly realize that it won't be for the mythical 2 hour train ride from Chicago to St. Louis. It will simply shorten the current 4+ hour train ride to 3+ hours.

Faster than today's 70mph limits, yes, but bringing a line up to 90mph is hardly cutting edge or even high speed, especially when you consider that the Illinois Central, Milwaukee Road, and Rock Island regularly operated trains at 90-105mph trains up until about 1960s...

Hmm, if you were going from NY to Boston or Washington DC what would you choose?

Don't worry -- DHS Secretary Napolitano has already said she wants to start putting the TSA in place for surface transport, including subways and Amtrak. At some point, the hassle factor will be equalized...

 

[kirkpatrick]

High speed rail is a pipe dream in all but a couple places (BOS-NYC-WAS, and maybe SFO-LAX-SAN) where there's a population density to support it.

You're right, unfortunately. I say that because I love trains and would love to see it, but it won't happen in my lifetime. Population density is the determining factor. Japan and Western Europe are densly populated areas with large cities close together. The number of miles of track necessary in the US makes cost prohibitive except in the corridors you mentioned.
MK

 

[telebender1956]

They've been talking about a high-speed triangle rail system connecting Dallas, Houston, San Antonio and Austin since at least the 1980's. IIRC it was originally proposed in the 1970's after the first oil embargo and gas prices shot up to $0.50/gal! The auto and road construction (and airline, I'm sure) lobbies have successfully prevented the project from being funded so far. After all, it was supposed to give you Dallas-Houston, city center to city center in a little over two hours. Or, about the time it would take you to drive from downtown Dallas to DFW in rush hour, park, go through security and check in at your gate, and maybe get into the air.

When Houston wanted to build a light rail line serving a major traffic corridor in SW Houston--low cost, using existing railroad right-of-way, Tom DeLay successfully blocked all Federal funding for it as long as he was in Congress. The city went ahead and built a demo line from downtown through the Medical Center to the Astrodome. I heard from a friend who still lives there that it's been successful even beyond the proponents expectations. People who work downtown do NOT want to pay downtown parking prices if they can avoid it.

I wouldn't hold my breath until we see high-speed rail version of the City of New Orleans.

DART had already got a big portion of the private partnership financing lined up but SWA,AA,CAL successfully lobbied to get the matching FEDERAL Funding killed. So here we sit 25 years later wishing we had high speed rail in the U.S. and are servants to foreign oil at the gas pump.

 

[PHL]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/40492239#40492239

Hmm, if you were going from NY to Boston or Washington DC what would you choose? Take a taxi out to JFK, leave your house at least two hours before the flight, go though security, get crammed into a tiny seat, maybe leave on time then find your way from DCA to city center , elapsed time at least four hours from when you left your house, (not much shorter than just driving point to point)
or take High Speed rail right from city center to city center?
High speed rail will be safer, more dependable, more efficient ,greener and possibly even quicker than flying on short haul trips.

I'm sure our tools will work just as well on trains as planes.

NY to BOS has been done on the Acela and, previously, the Metroliner for many years with general success. Would it be nicer to do it faster than 3.5-4 hours that it now takes? Sure, but given the infrastructure and lack of good alternatives for rail upgrades, it's the best we can do right now. People also routinely commute out to LaGuardia to take the DL or US shuttle, where those two services have the process down to a good science that makes door to door time comparable with the train, not including the hassle factor.

China is building out a rail network at lightning fast pace. They can do that for a few reasons:

1.) Easy to procure land, and very little if any environmental opposition. When they decide to build it, there's little in the way to delay any progress.
2.) Cheap labor. They can throw thousands of workers onto a rail project at a very minimal cost.