AA's operational performance already suffering?

[Mach85ER]

IMHO, Crandall's style may be part of the reason we are in this mess. Think of him as the tough father who was the leader of the family business with many sons/daughters groomed to become the future leaders of the family.

Not unlike any family, I think his style caused the real talented kids to run off and make their own fortunes in the airline world.

What was left were the submissive kids with a lack of vision and talent not unlike those in real life who live in their parents basement in their 30's eating pizza rolls and playing Xbox all day.

 

[strikeforce]

IMHO, Crandall's style may be part of the reason we are in this mess. Think of him as the tough father who was the leader of the family business with many sons/daughters groomed to become the future leaders of the family.

Not unlike any family, I think his style caused the real talented kids to run off and make their own fortunes in the airline world.

What was left were the submissive kids with a lack of vision and talent not unlike those in real life who live in their parents basement in their 30's eating pizza rolls and playing Xbox all day.

excellent analogy! ......AA certainly ended up with all the gems!

 

[WorldTraveler]

outstanding, Mach.
There are MANY organizations that implode because the leaders haven't groomed people to take over... and strong, charismatic leaders can be some of the worst.

The airline industry has long had some of the worst labor relations in American business and it has been precisely AA current mgmt's ability to figure out how to lead and motivate people w/o destroying them that has cost AA so much.

A US merger couldn't fix the problems that have faced AA for years even if they got started tomorrow. There are enormous cultural problems that have to be addressed and it takes years for that to take place in an organization - even if it is totally acquired. Given AA's larger size, US can't possibly change the culture quickly w/o spending enormous amounts of money they simply don't have.

And there are airlines that have done mergers right and have grown stronger through them, although they are few and far between in the airline industry.

 

[Barfbag]

Ironically Crandall was groomed by Al Casey, after having learned the airline
" ropes " at TWA.

 

[Kev3188]

I'm now at the new United....

Not sure if you posted this before or if I just missed it...

All merger headaches aside, I hopes it's a case of "so far, so good" for you.

 

[strikeforce]

outstanding, Mach.
There are MANY organizations that implode because the leaders haven't groomed people to take over... and strong, charismatic leaders can be some of the worst.

The airline industry has long had some of the worst labor relations in American business and it has been precisely AA current mgmt's ability to figure out how to lead and motivate people w/o destroying them that has cost AA so much.

A US merger couldn't fix the problems that have faced AA for years even if they got started tomorrow. There are enormous cultural problems that have to be addressed and it takes years for that to take place in an organization - even if it is totally acquired. Given AA's larger size, US can't possibly change the culture quickly w/o spending enormous amounts of money they simply don't have.

And there are airlines that have done mergers right and have grown stronger through them, although they are few and far between in the airline industry.

It will take an Act of God to change the attitudes airline workers have towards management. I wonder if Business schools offer labor relations courses specificallly for Airline Management students. 4 years of labor relations courses should be a requirement. Airline workers have been #### on for years.....and it's only getting worse. But, why are labor relations problems so much more pronounced in the airline industry, than any other industry?? what's the solution?

 

[strikeforce]

Not sure if you posted this before or if I just missed it...

All merger headaches aside, I hopes it's a case of "so far, so good" for you.

It's ALL good! Thanks!

and, let me just say....not all management is bad. My managers are very respectful, good leaders, and are there to teach, so you don't fail in your duties. A whole different culture in Tech Ops. We're looked at as experts in our field.....not only from Tech Ops, but from a host of other departments. And, that's a good feeling! I enjoy going to work!

 

[Mach85ER]

World,

In the 90's, we spent a weekend with some friends in NYC. In the small group was a Senior VP of North America for a well known UK carrier. He was on the level with AA's Baker, Gunn, and Crandall with most of his dealings including those below them. When asked for his opinion of AA, it was enlightening to hear his answer. "The upper levels like Baker are sharp, and quick to answer and make decisions, the rest? dark blue suit, red tie, and not a single one can think for themselves or make a decison out of mortal fear for their jobs".

Think about what has happened after the 1990's senior management left.

Just an observation on my part. But it's interesting.

 

[WorldTraveler]

it has been well discussed here before, but the RLA is broken... it doesn't work in an environment where market forces should be allowed to work. And market forces go both ways - from labor and from mgmt.
The RLA inhibits the ability of the labor market to work.

The post-deregulation "enhancement" of BK laws further eroded labor's hand.

I'm not going to say that the US airline industry should have remained as a regulated utility but the reality is that they only opened liberated part of the market - the price and availability of seats - but did nothing to deal w/ structural issues such as labor, taxes, and infrastructure.

The only salvation - if there is any - is that the US airline industry is reaching a point of equilibrium after 35 years of incredible pain for airline employees, investors, and customers.
Doesn't make it any easier for you as AA employees who are right in the middle of the ringer but the likelihood is very high that the AA BK will be the last unless one of the airlines makes MAJOR strategic errors. most airlines learned in BK the necessity to build business plans that can adapt to market reailties.
Even if AA emerges independently and fails again, they won't drag all of the industry's pay rates down - but they might keep a lid on wage growth. TW and PA and other carriers that failed over a period of time were marginalized and they didn't succeed at pulling rates down for the whole industry.

Mach,
that is precisely what happens when a top leader or level of leaders fails badly at perpetuating their values. People say that Crandall was incredibly personable. His ability to get things done as a hard driver was tempered by his ability to relate to people. Alot of AA mgmt have lost the ability to relate to people, if they are ever had it. The results are not surprising. They focused on only part of what made Crandall tick.

 

[Barfbag]

It will take an Act of God to change the attitudes airline workers have towards management. I wonder if Business schools offer labor relations courses specificallly for Airline Management students. 4 years of labor relations courses should be a requirement. Airline workers have been #### on for years.....and it's only getting worse. But, why are labor relations problems so much more pronounced in the airline industry, than any other industry?? what's the solution?

Regulate the industry.. Bing back price controls.. So no airline ever goes under again. Bring back the glory days of airline traveling where people who flew were the privileged few, not the animal hordes of today. When people of the street stopped in awe when they saw the company logo on your uniform. Yeah right, somebody wake me.....

 

[WorldTraveler]

Regulate the industry.. Bing back price controls.. So no airline ever goes under again. Bring back the glory days of airline traveling where people who flew were the privileged few, not the animal hordes of today. When people of the street stopped in awe when they saw the company logo on your uniform. Yeah right, somebody wake me.....

except that airlines failed in the regulated era, too.

Even with price and capacity controls, there were airlines that didn't make it.

Bad management survived in the regulated era and they can still survive today. The repercussions of the errors are greater today - and it is harder to hide.....but bad mgmt is timeless.

 

[strikeforce]

Regulate the industry.. Bing back price controls.. So no airline ever goes under again. Bring back the glory days of airline traveling where people who flew were the privileged few, not the animal hordes of today. When people of the street stopped in awe when they saw the company logo on your uniform. Yeah right, somebody wake me.....

If airlines would only price their product accordingly to where they can make a profit. pricing your product at a loss just to keep the city pair doesn't make good business sense. I remember a documentary by travel guru Peter Greenberg on CNBC where an AA flight from LAX to JFK made only $200 after all expenses paid. One or two less passengers and the flight generates a loss. The industry needs to go back to the basics. leave on time...and make sure the bag gets there too. Today, there's too much emphasis on IFE, Lie-Flat seats, and making our cabins look like the taj mahal. Get real!

 

[TWU informer]

And so now a MD-80 full of Tulsa AMT's head to DFW to save the day?

The TWU Local 514 leadership had not the guts to take a stand and fight our own fight, and now they sit on their hands while their membership goes to fight someone else's apparent battle with the company.

I have no idea what is happening with the Out of Service Aircraft, but the Tulsa based AMT's voted 75% yes to not fight, so they need to stay at home and not go make extra pay while fighting the fight that another work group is fighting.

This is not your fight Local 514, tell your members to stay at home and live with the results of the yes vote you advocated and wanted so badly.

To go an profit with overtime from another union man's battle, is not much different than a SCAB, crossing an official picket line of another union group.

 

[johnny kat]

So, everyone agrees AA must have new management. HMMM...just how many other qualified airline managements have submitted their resume to run the entire AA? Delta? Nope, they only want certain parts not the whole enchilada. United? Nah, they are already too busy trying to be the largest airline on the planet by digesting CO. JetBlue? Already said hell no to AA. Alaska? Could care less about AA. Republic? Think not, they can't get rid of the noose known as Frontier.

And of course the answer is USAirways. So round and round we go. US is the only airline management team that has actually put forth the plan of action. So once again the old adage is true: Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

As for the argument that US/AA will be back in bankruptcy, if that is the case then probably all of the airlines will have to go back thru BK. The new AA/US will be as strong if not stronger as any of the others and better positioned through immuned joint ventures with more desirable BA-Heathrow and JAL-tokyo. Not to mention dominance in the South American markets...but I'm not saying anything all of the naysayers who would like to see this deal nixed already know.

 

[Toothy Grin]

My +1 brings you back to "0". I do think you are right, that some on here would like to see AA fail, US too. There are ALOT of really wonderful employees I've met at AA over the last 20 or so years. I hope something positive will work out soon for everyone in the US/AA pot.