About that Presidential Executive Order on Interrogations…

[dapoes]

Looking over the new executive order Ensuring Lawful Interrogations, which revokes President Bush’s Executive Order 13440, it comes to the conclusion that President Obama’s executive order says much the same thing as the one it revokes:

Presidential Order

1. Torture is prohibited as defined in section 2340 of title 18, United States Code.

2. Murder, torture, cruel or inhuman treatment, mutilation or maiming, intentionally causing serious bodily injury, rape, sexual assault or abuse, taking of hostages, or performing of biological experiments is prohibited.

3. Other acts of violence serious enough to be considered comparable to murder, torture, mutilation, and cruel or inhuman treatment, as defined in section 2441(d) of title 18, United States Code are prohibited.

4. Any other acts of cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment are prohibited.

5. We are prohibited from engaging in willful and outrageous acts of personal abuse done for the purpose of humiliating or degrading the individual in a manner so serious that any reasonable person, considering the circumstances, would deem the acts to be beyond the bounds of human decency, such as sexual or sexually indecent acts undertaken for the purpose of humiliation, forcing the individual to perform sexual acts or to pose sexually, threatening the individual with sexual mutilation, or using the individual as a human shield.

6. Acts intended to denigrate the religion, religious practices, or religious objects of the individual will not be tolerated.

Does that sound like a strong departure from the Bush Administration’s Interpretation of the Geneva Conventions Common Article 3 as Applied to a Program of Detention and Interrogation Operated by the Central Intelligence Agency?

It’s not. It IS the Bush Administration’s 2007 Executive Order 13440.

 

[Gilding the Lily]

Looking over the new executive order Ensuring Lawful Interrogations, which revokes President Bush’s Executive Order 13440, it comes to the conclusion that President Obama’s executive order says much the same thing as the one it revokes:

Presidential Order



Does that sound like a strong departure from the Bush Administration’s Interpretation of the Geneva Conventions Common Article 3 as Applied to a Program of Detention and Interrogation Operated by the Central Intelligence Agency?

It’s not. It IS the Bush Administration’s 2007 Executive Order 13440.

I suppose if you only read that small section of Obama's Executive Order, then they will read similarly. However, if you read Obama's entire Executive Order, and then read Bush's old Executive Order, you will find that there are stark differences between the two.

 

[dapoes]

I suppose if you only read that small section of Obama's Executive Order, then they will read similarly. However, if you read Obama's entire Executive Order, and then read Bush's old Executive Order, you will find that there are stark differences between the two.

:blink: Really? Such as?

Obama says we don't torture, no sh!t Bush's Executive Order 13440 prohibits that. That was the purpose and was enacted in July 2007. then fast forward to last week where Obama used his executive power to reverse Bush's policies on interrogation of terrorists.

Obama EO reffer's heavily on "Common Article 3" and guess what...so did Bush's EO.


So what this pony show was all about was to show to the (uninformed) american public he is living up to a campaign promise. A promise to revoke a policy that was already revoked.

 

[Gilding the Lily]

:blink: Really? Such as?

I believe you are capable of doing your own cross-checking. Copy it into word and run a blackline comparison if you are short on time. But I will entertain your question for you... First, and perhaps most important, Obama's EO explicitly prohibits reliance on any DOJ or other legal advice concerning interrogation that was issued after 9/11 during Bush's administration. This includes Alberto Gonzales' very controversial "torture memo" that was widely criticized since its creation and largely responsible for Gonzales' failed attempts of finding gainful employment since leaving the AG's office. Second, Obama's EO orders the CIA to close existing detention facilities and prohibits the CIA from operating detention facilities in the future. Finally, Obama's EO establishes a special task force with two missions: (1)conducting a review of the Army Field Manual interrogation guidelines to determine whether different guidance is necessary for the CIA; (2) reviewing policies for transferring individuals to third countries to be sure that US policies and practices comply with all obligations and are sufficient to ensure that individuals do not face torture if transferred. Those are VERY big differences!