Acc. To Delta: Combined FA Workforce "Most Likely" to vote again.

[Danny Campbell]

Cooper43:

Send me an email and I will send you a comparison PDF file on the EXACT line up of our two seniority lists. To his credit, Jake sent me an email and I sent the file to him.

Danny [email protected]

 

[GSEMAN]

I am not a FA and I am definitely not pro-union or anti-union. I do have an open mind regardless of what Luke thinks but I was just wondering what situations warrants voting in a union in the first place. I am sure Luke will try to belittle me in this thread as he has done in others. This is not a debate thread but one for eductional purposes in my oppinion. When pro-union people use words like sheeople and regirgitation, it just shows a lack of open mindedness on their part. I saw a response where Luke claimed to be a victim. Can he elaborate? I am in no way trying to zero in on Luke and I do want a truce but please educate all of us so we understand. I to saw what the lack of cooperation did to the NW Technicians. They were hung out to dry and they knew it because I talked to some of them in MKE during the strike. Is this an "us and them" situation if multiple unions are voted in? There are very few situations shown in this forum that warrant union assistance as far as I can see. Please educate me...and Luke I will read and digest all you write.

 

[Danny Campbell]

Cooper43: Nevermind, I just uploaded the file to your Delta-AFA website, you can view it here; http://www.deltaafa.org/aefiles/NWADALSeniority.pdf

 

[Yankeestu]

Luke

I understand what you are saying but I am no more falling for Delta's PR campaign than you are for AFA's. I feel quite certain that I'm able to decern truth from fiction. I cant confirm any supervisors meeting planes to converse about the AFA campaign, I havent heard that. I certainly dont think it is even possible with this new "FAIR AND EQUITABLE" law to staple NWA to the bottom, and I havent heard anyone suggesting that. As far as the seniority difference between DAL and NWA I would love for someone to come out with a factual list so we could make our decision based on facts. That would be had facts. Instead we rely on AFA and DAL to tell us what the facts are. As far as the US pilots, they lost seniority because the arbitrator said they had the most to gain, in other words if AW hadnt saved them they would have been facing liquidation. So in that particular case it was fair that they didnt go to the top of the list just becuase they had been working longer. Now NWA is certainly not in US's condition but an arbitrator would be able to at least review the size and scope of each airline. As I have already said, prove to me that DOH is fair to each airline and I will support AFA. It will take more than talking points. I am not defending Delta here or being non union. I am advocating negotiating senority based on more than just DOH.

Why do you keep insisting that as a Delta Flight Attendant that supports the union, I am untruthful?
You are so incredibly offensive. You can look at all the AFA carriers contracts, anyone can....thats your facts. Go do your homework and stop offending people of either spinning yarns or being a lemming.

I have read through their contracts because unlike you, I have choosen to have an educated descision.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

I am not a FA and I am definitely not pro-union or anti-union. I do have an open mind regardless of what Luke thinks but I was just wondering what situations warrants voting in a union in the first place. I am sure Luke will try to belittle me in this thread as he has done in others. This is not a debate thread but one for eductional purposes in my oppinion. When pro-union people use words like sheeople and regirgitation, it just shows a lack of open mindedness on their part. I saw a response where Luke claimed to be a victim. Can he elaborate? I am in no way trying to zero in on Luke and I do want a truce but please educate all of us so we understand. I to saw what the lack of cooperation did to the NW Technicians. They were hung out to dry and they knew it because I talked to some of them in MKE during the strike. Is this an "us and them" situation if multiple unions are voted in? There are very few situations shown in this forum that warrant union assistance as far as I can see. Please educate me...and Luke I will read and digest all you write.

1. I never said I was a victim, GS. I was actually responding to Jake's assertion that what happens is gonna happen and there was nothing he could do. I said HE was coming across as a victim. Just the opposite.
2. More than anything, you, and I say this as nicely as I can, either have some trouble comprehending what you read or perhaps you are speed- reading through the posts, but you get so many things mixed up (like #1 above) and it becomes frustrating. I have spent way too much time on this board the past couple of days because I have been a little under the weather. I can't possibly begin to go into why I think we need a union to a non -FA at this time. Perhaps Danny or Yankeestu can. I have to save a little of my patience for some of our passengers!
3. If I belittled you in the past, it was because of this frustration and, to be honest, that one post of yours was to me, creepy but I don't want to bring that into this board. My apolgies for coming across as belittling.
4. It is my opinion that Cajun comes across as a "sheeple". I'm allowed to express my opinions on this board as are you and is she. And when you read something verbatim from the DL web board here, when it's completely duplicated, that's called regurgitation. (However, I don't think I've used that word recently, if at all.)

And finally, GS..if you are against the union, admit it. Be proud of your stance..just as I am proud of mine.
So many of you who are against FAs winning next month and having a voice say you're not anti-union. It's " I don't see a reason for it", or "just not AFA", or "not at this time." What do you call that? It's ok...go for it. Be yourself. Be real. That's what makes things interesting.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Why do you keep insisting that as a Delta Flight Attendant that supports the union, I am untruthful?
You are so incredibly offensive. You can look at all the AFA carriers contracts, anyone can....thats your facts. Go do your homework and stop offending people of either spinning yarns or being a lemming.

I have read through their contracts because unlike you, I have choosen to have an educated descision.

I don't think Cooper means to be offensive but unfortunately she has bought into the "Third party" idea that all of Delta's anti-union websites and flyers have referred to. In other words, when she says "what the AFA says", she doesn't realize that she is putting down DELTA FAs who are working on and writing for the campaign. It's sad because she has been talked into believing that she is in the middle and on one side is Delta Mgt (Anderson, now Steenland, all VPs, Joanne Smith...all who stand to gain millions) and then the AFA (where Pat Friend's salary is nowhere near what Anderson or Steenland will get in Golden Parachutes). If you mention this, you are told you're condescending...trust me kid, I've been around these boards way too long. It's quite frustrating and I'm seriously considering giving it a rest. Maybe you can take over for me for a little while. Until you showed up here, I was by myself and then Danny came (Thank God). Now you're here which feels good!
Thanks for all you do Yank.

 

[Danny Campbell]

GS:

Workers join unions because they want;

* A voice in their pay, benefits and working conditions -- and as big a piece of the pie as their employer can realistically afford.
* A seat at the "grown-ups table" -- insteading of having to sit at the "kid's table" and be served by the rich and powerful, and...
* Due process (the right to tell their story and have an independant arbitrator decide) when they are disciplined or harmed
* A safe working environment (for example, did you know our union (AFA) has successfuly fought for more cabin safety improvements than any organization in the world (minimum crew, adequate FA training, flame-retardant cabin interiors, exit row proximity, child restraints, floor level emergency lighting, air quality studies, etc...etc...)
* A louder voice in our government (corporations have their high-paid lobbyists in Washington, DC and we have our millions of voices through our labor unions).

There's plenty more reasons, but those are the primary ones. I think most Americans don't realize that we are the ONLY CIVILIZED COUNTRY ON THE PLANET that has such anti-worker policies. For example, we are one of the only countries that has an "at will" employment policy - where employers have no real binding obligation towards their workers. Not surprisingly, it is also harder to join a union in this country than most places around the world. We have given corporations way more power than most societies afford to employers. And, the worse it gets, the less of a middle-class we will have.

Check out this; http://www.afacolganair.org/aefiles/WorkerRights.pdf

 

[Yankeestu]

I don't think Cooper means to be offensive but unfortunately she has bought into the "Third party" idea that all of Delta's anti-union websites and flyers have referred to. In other words, when she says "what the AFA says", she doesn't realize that she is putting down DELTA FAs who are working on and writing for the campaign. It's sad because she has been talked into believing that she is in the middle and on one side is Delta Mgt (Anderson, now Steenland, all VPs, Joanne Smith...all who stand to gain millions) and then the AFA (where Pat Friend's salary is nowhere near what Anderson or Steenland will get in Golden Parachutes). If you mention this, you are told you're condescending...trust me kid, I've been around these boards way too long. It's quite frustrating and I'm seriously considering giving it a rest. Maybe you can take over for me for a little while. Until you showed up here, I was by myself and then Danny came (Thank God). Now you're here which feels good!
Thanks for all you do Yank.

Thank you Luke!

It perplexes me. All I want is job security and the ability to earn a livable wage. In the old days if you worked hard and did a good job, you had job security. Today is a different mind set.
All I want is what is best for the nation's Flight Attendants.
Why the company has to spin it confuses the mind.
How people can believe that we as AFA Flight Attendant volunteers have some hidden agenda baffles.

What would I personally have to gain? I want what is best for all of us and call me cynical but I certainly don't trust our management to consider what is best for each and every one of us.

Do you?

 

[BABABOOY]

Regarding Company transfers to Inflight. What is AFA's policy
on Furlough's. Does the employee get furloughed with Inflight Date
of hire or Company Date of hire? Again, for furlough purpose only.
Thanks

 

[cooper43]

Cooper43: Nevermind, I just uploaded the file to your Delta-AFA website, you can view it here; http://www.deltaafa.org/aefiles/NWADALSeniority.pdf

Thanks Danny I will give this a look over and see how it looks. I appreciate your work and support.

 

[JakesWorld]

Regarding Company transfers to Inflight. What is AFA's policy
on Furlough's. Does the employee get furloughed with Inflight Date
of hire or Company Date of hire? Again, for furlough purpose only.
Thanks

Delta is currently the only carrier to handle company transfers the way they do. With other airlines the only thing your years of service account for would be vacations and years of service for retirement. Currently after a transfer into IFS your salary is based on DL years of service. The only thing that is different is your bidding seniority for your monthly line and vacation bidding. Currently if a furlough where to occur your company seniority date could very well prevent you from being furloughed. At other carriers any furlough is based upon your inflight seniority date not your company seniority date.

 

[DLSam]

Regarding Company transfers to Inflight. What is AFA's policy
on Furlough's. Does the employee get furloughed with Inflight Date
of hire or Company Date of hire? Again, for furlough purpose only.
Thanks

I have a number of questions in addition to wanting to know about the above guestion, if anyone out there has this information.

1.Does anyone know what AFA's policy is in regards to protecting language flight attendants when it comes to furlough's? Is it straight in- flight seniority or is the airline usually able to negotiate protection?

2. What would what would happen if AFA is voted in at DL, but furlough's are announced before a contract is agreed upon?

3. How would it work in regards to DL voting in AFA next month, if DL f/a's are in the middle of negoatiations with DL and the merger is confirmed later on this year. How would AFA handle that situation?

4. Last, but not least, if AFA is voted in next month, will DL f/a's be required to immediately start paying dues, or does a contract have to be negotiated before dues are assessed? How about in a DL/NW joint negotiation if DL has not negotiated a contract before then?

Thanks!

 

[BABABOOY]

Delta is currently the only carrier to handle company transfers the way they do. With other airlines the only thing your years of service account for would be vacations and years of service for retirement. Currently after a transfer into IFS your salary is based on DL years of service. The only thing that is different is your bidding seniority for your monthly line and vacation bidding. Currently if a furlough where to occur your company seniority date could very well prevent you from being furloughed. At other carriers any furlough is based upon your inflight seniority date not your company seniority date.

So, I guess all that would change with AFA and NW?
Any company transfers in their right mind wouldn't want the AFA.
I have several friends who are company transfers, some with 20 years
and a few with 30years. They would be furloughed first before a NW f/a hired
say 10-15 years ago?
Danny, Luke, any insight?

 

[cooper43]

Why do you keep insisting that as a Delta Flight Attendant that supports the union, I am untruthful?
You are so incredibly offensive. You can look at all the AFA carriers contracts, anyone can....thats your facts. Go do your homework and stop offending people of either spinning yarns or being a lemming.

I have read through their contracts because unlike you, I have choosen to have an educated descision.

Yankeestu

You are completely missing my point. I am on your side. You ask me to look over contracts of other airlines but I havent said anything about anybodys contract. The only thing I am concerned with is the policy of DOH. I am for a union. But I just have a huge problem with this automatic policy that covers any merger no matter what if they are AFA. Frankly I am surprised that more DL flight attendants are more concerned about this issue. If we get this wrong it will affect us the rest of our careers. What is wrong with negotiating how we merge the senority list? You are ok with negotiating a contract (so am I) why not senority , it is a huge issue. And I have looked at the chart that Danny posted and when you really look at it in as a percentage (because Delta has more f/a's ) DL isnt really more senior. Anyway I am going to just leave it alone. I personally think it is a big deal and it will be too late after we vote in AFA to #### about your seniority. Good luck.

 

[Yankeestu]

So, I guess all that would change with AFA and NW?
Any company transfers in their right mind wouldn't want the AFA.
I have several friends who are company transfers, some with 20 years
and a few with 30years. They would be furloughed first before a NW f/a hired
say 10-15 years ago?
Danny, Luke, any insight?

Once again it goes back to what you choose to negotiate. We decide what we want in our contract.
I can't image anyone at DAL would want to adopt that language into our contract. But the good thing is, we have that choice during negotiations.