Acc. To Delta: Combined FA Workforce "Most Likely" to vote again.

I have a number of questions in addition to wanting to know about the above guestion, if anyone out there has this information.

1.Does anyone know what AFA's policy is in regards to protecting language flight attendants when it comes to furlough's? Is it straight in- flight seniority or is the airline usually able to negotiate protection?

2. What would what would happen if AFA is voted in at DL, but furlough's are announced before a contract is agreed upon?

3. How would it work in regards to DL voting in AFA next month, if DL f/a's are in the middle of negoatiations with DL and the merger is confirmed later on this year. How would AFA handle that situation?

4. Last, but not least, if AFA is voted in next month, will DL f/a's be required to immediately start paying dues, or does a contract have to be negotiated before dues are assessed? How about in a DL/NW joint negotiation if DL has not negotiated a contract before then?

Thanks!

1. Every carrier had their own contract, but it appears as though it is strictly on a seniority basis.
but they all seem to have in their language that they have to offer voluntary furloughs.
By the way.....United pays for you insurance while on voluntary furlough.
2. Depends on if the merger has goen through yet.
3. My guess and hope is that we negotiate a contract that NW will want and to do that we will work with NW when we negotiate the lanuage of our contract. I think the merger will go through before we have a contract...another guess.
4. You don't pay union dues until you have a contract.

Any other questions I can try and answer?
 
Once again it goes back to what you choose to negotiate. We decide what we want in our contract.
I can't image anyone at DAL would want to adopt that language into our contract. But the good thing is, we have that choice during negotiations.
What did the AFA negotiate with NW ? Date of Hire or Inflight date of hire for furloughs?
 
And I have looked at the chart that Danny posted and when you really look at it in as a percentage (because Delta has more f/a's ) DL isnt really more senior.

Cooper,
The math that I used shows me as being at 16% of the Total number of NW FAs, meaning 84% are junior to me on that list. At Delta I am at 25% which means 75% of DL FAs are junior to me. That means, according to my calculations, my seniority would carry more weight at NW, than DL. Of course, that is in a general sense. You then have to subcategorize into different bases but what we're looking at here is basic, general seniority.
What methodology did you use? Maybe at your seniority, there is less of a difference. But I'm not sure how that would be. I understand not wanting to give your exact year of hire on the public board (as I don't really wish to) but maybe message it to me (your bidding hire year) and I can try to check on it.
 
Taking the day off -- HAH !!!

I have been BOMBARDED with calls and emails today -- sorry.

Bababooy:

First -- in our AFA contracts, we try like heck to make sure that we never HAVE any Involuntary Furloughs. The way we approach it, is by offering various "voluntary leave" programs. For example, after 9.11, Richard Anderson and I negotiated a leave program that saved 2400 FAs from furlough (with company-paid medical/denta coverage).

When we do have furloughs, it goes by our seniority list date (not internal company hire date).

DLSam:

1.Does anyone know what AFA's policy is in regards to protecting language flight attendants when it comes to furlough's? Is it straight in- flight seniority or is the airline usually able to negotiate protection?

"AFA" doesn't have a policy - this is something that "you" as Delta FAs will determine in your contract. As far as I know, the only AFA carrier that has similar contract language to the "policies" at Delta is America West/AFA.

2. What would what would happen if AFA is voted in at DL, but furlough's are announced before a contract is agreed upon?

You (Delta leaders) would immediately approach Anderson and IFS management to initiate a "furlough avoidance" program. Even though you don't have a "full contract" yet, nothing stops you from negotiating a "provisional agreement" outside of the normal bargaining process. And, if you get management to agree with these things - they are legally binding.

3. How would it work in regards to DL voting in AFA next month, if DL f/a's are in the middle of negoatiations with DL and the merger is confirmed later on this year. How would AFA handle that situation?

If Delta FAs join AFA, two things happen. First, our NWA contract becomes "secure". You (Delta FAs) benefit from our contract (not in terms of our pay, working conditions,etc...) because our contract requires a FENCE AGREEMENT between both groups. That keeps your flying and your bases secure. Then, it allows our two groups to immediately get to work on a COMBINED contract. Considering the Delta FAs I have met, I would LOVE to see our groups work together on the BEST FA contract we can get.

4. Last, but not least, if AFA is voted in next month, will DL f/a's be required to immediately start paying dues, or does a contract have to be negotiated before dues are assessed? How about in a DL/NW joint negotiation if DL has not negotiated a contract before then?

NO. Pursuant to the AFA constitution, NEW MEMBERS do not pay ANY dues until they have ratified (voted to approve) their first contract.

Danny
 
Bababooy:

Regardless of how we do things at NWA, it doesn't prevent you from having whatever you want in your contract. In fact, there are many FAs at NWA that would agree with you on this point - as our company only started promoting INTERNAL transfers to IFS from other departments in the last 10 years. So, the chances that both groups would support that in a combined contract is very probable.
 
Bababooy:

Regardless of how we do things at NWA, it doesn't prevent you from having whatever you want in your contract.
You got to admit that is a pretty broad statement. Whatever I want?
Back to the issue. Wouldn't the F/A population vote on such an issue? I highly doubt that they
would vote for a group of around 2,000 to go ahead of them inline in the case of a furlough.
If there are many F/A's at NW who would agree, then why isn't the policy changed at NW ?

Also, Danny I just read the latest Newsletter from AFA "what's the future for NW Flight attendants?"
Talk about scare tactics. There is a huge amount of posturing from both sides. BTW if I were a NW
F/A of 19 years. how many weeks of vacation would I have. I have 4 now. Would I get my 5th week back?

Luke, I thought you mentioned in another thread you had 30 years?
 
Bababooy:

The reason the policy (contract provisions) haven't changed at NWA, is because the issue has not been one that FAs at my carrrier have targeted for change (thru our contract surveys or thru any kind of political movement). Things change when groups of FAs make them change -- like for example our ability to fly High Value Turns (1 day rotations worth over 8:00 hours of hard fly). Two contracts ago, NWA FAs targeted this kind of flying as something they wanted....so it was negotiated in our 1999 contract. Then, based on how senior the flying was -- and our next contract surveys filled out in 2004, this flying was expanded in our current contract. That's how things change -- FAs are polled and they make their collective wishes known. To date, the issue of company-seniority (outside of IFS department) has simply not appeared on surveys as an issue that NW FAs want changed. I suspect that wouldn't be the case with a combined NW/DL contract survey -- as I have heard it quite often from Delta FAs.

What I find interesting about the Renee Foss communication (Re: future of NW FAs) is that she is correct in her opening paragraphs - she never really was engaged in our union in the past, until she saw the plans that our executives laid on the table 2 years ago that would have outsourced 75% of our international flying. It was a wake-up call to many (obviously including her) that without a strong contract, our jobs were very vulnerable. Renee is the LAST NWA FA that I would consider a fear-monger.

Under our current concessionary contract, a 19 year FA would accrue 17 vacation days this year. That increases to 25 days next year and 26 the last year of the contract. However, we are paid more for each vacation day. I think you all are paid 2:45 per vacation day ? We are paid 3:00 per vacation day. Luke, on the other hand, would accrue 25 days this year, 29 the next year and 32 the last year.
 
You got to admit that is a pretty broad statement. Whatever I want?
Back to the issue. Wouldn't the F/A population vote on such an issue? I highly doubt that they
would vote for a group of around 2,000 to go ahead of them inline in the case of a furlough.
If there are many F/A's at NW who would agree, then why isn't the policy changed at NW ?

Also, Danny I just read the latest Newsletter from AFA "what's the future for NW Flight attendants?"
Talk about scare tactics. There is a huge amount of posturing from both sides. BTW if I were a NW
F/A of 19 years. how many weeks of vacation would I have. I have 4 now. Would I get my 5th week back?

Luke, I thought you mentioned in another thread you had 30 years?

I said I have CLOSE to 30 years, BOOY.
What is your question in reference to? and why are you splitting hairs with my seniority?
Since you seem to be a proponent of questioning every poster's last motive here, why don't you please explain yourself? I don't appreciate your insinuating that I am a liar.
I am beginning to grow tired of your petulance...it is wearing thin unless you can explain yourself.
 
I said I have CLOSE to 30 years, BOOY.
What is your question in reference to? and why are you splitting hairs with my seniority?
Since you seem to be a proponent of questioning every poster's last motive here, why don't you please explain yourself? I don't appreciate your insinuating that I am a liar.
I am beginning to grow tired of your petulance...it is wearing thin unless you can explain yourself.

I am not splitting hairs about your seniority, it seems that you are. So I failed to mention
the word "CLOSE" my mistake. WOW. Seems to me your the one splitting hairs. I don't feel your a liar but
its obvious your over sensitive on the subject.
It also seems that you have a problem differentiating between questions and questioning a Posters motive.
I made a statement that their is posturing on BOTH sides. Is that what is bothering you?
I think the difference between us is that I don't believe either side is perfect. And I try to Keep an open
mind. As far as ALMOST 30 years vs my ALMOST 20 years. We are going to look at the seniority
intergration issue VERY differenty, as a "ALMOST" 30years F/A you will not be hurt.
 
I am not splitting hairs about your seniority, it seems that you are. So I failed to mention
the word "CLOSE" my mistake. WOW. Seems to me your the one splitting hairs. I don't feel your a liar but
its obvious your over sensitive on the subject.
It also seems that you have a problem differentiating between questions and questioning a Posters motive.
I made a statement that their is posturing on BOTH sides. Is that what is bothering you?
I think the difference between us is that I don't believe either side is perfect. And I try to Keep an open
mind. As far as ALMOST 30 years vs my ALMOST 20 years. We are going to look at the seniority
intergration issue VERY differenty, as a "ALMOST" 30years F/A you will not be hurt.

Be that as it may, you asked the question out of the clear blue in that posting...if you go back and reread it, it didn't have anything to do with what you were talking about. You are always SO on the offensive against AFA that it came across that way.
Delta has the upper hand in this. They are not willing to remain neutral as asked by Congress and were called on it on Capitol Hill yesterday. Yes, I think sometimes AFA glosses over things. No organization is perfect. But let's face it, Delta has the bucks and the way the RLA is set up, they have the upper hand.
Finally I have grown weary with the "gotchya" tone of your questioning. I feel like you're not really neutral; that you just pretend to be... and it has gotten old to me. You have a MAJOR bias AGAINST AFA and it is evident in your posts. Again, I will say this: at least with Cajun and Jake, one knows where they stand.
I wish you the best of luck and I'm sure Danny can continue to answer your "questions" but please refrain from referencing me or looking to me for answers. I'm now working on trying to undo the damage DL has done with their interference (give it a rip) and getting out the vote.
 
Danny

Can you let us know when Richard Anderson himself attempted to outsource the NW international routes to Foreign Nationals? At one point we at DL had Indian Nationals flying out of FRA and CDG to BOM, DEL, and Chennai, until the JFK-BOM began. I also recall seeing a recent article, in which you are quoted saying:
"Richard went out of his way to resolve a lot of issues with us," Campbell said. "He is a cunning lawyer and a brilliant strategist."
Campbell said he found Anderson "not threatened" by organized labor and willing to discuss solutions to the thorniest problems faced by Northwest workers. At his core, however, Anderson was a tough-as-nails lawyer, Campbell said, possibly owing to the native Texan's early career as a prosecutor in his home state. "He operated from the premise, 'Put it in writing and we see what we can do,' " Campbell said. "He seems to embrace the process of solving problems."
Has your opinion of him changed since making these statement and since the DL organizing began? You also mention the hostile union sentiment at DL, have you ever thought it is the actual employees that don't want a union, we are a pretty educated group as well?

Also, in regards to seniority integration Delta has stated to ALL F/A's that there are options other than date of hire. What has been said is that a team of our peers (DL F/A's) are elected by us the DL F/A's and can sit down with the NW F/A's and negotiate an integration agreement. At that point date of hire may be the best available option, who knows, at least it gives the DL F/A a say in how integration is accomplished as opposed to just having it dictated by the AFA. Also, the DL AFA activist keep telling F/A's that if we don't vote for AFA now an arbitrator will be making the decision for us and DL will suffer and lose seniority. According to the AFA policy manual Section 10.J.2 it states the following: "Seniority integration with a non-AFA-CWA carrier shall, to the extent legally possible, be accomplished by compiling an integrated seniority list in the same manner as provided for seniority integration between flight attendants on AFA-CWA carriers." So are you saying that if DL is not AFA and we opt to select our own DL F/A peers to create a committee and represent us that NW AFA would not speak with them? Or if DL is non AFA NW would automatically want the issue arbitrated and not follow its own policy manual?

Can I Pour You Another TALL Glass Of DELTA KoolAid!! Drink Up !! :up:
 
Cajun Flyer, go over to the US board and ask the East Pilots about arbitration, you wont like the answers.
You are right when you say go ask the USairways guy about it...

we have guys that were Capt. here when the America West guys were born...

guess now who is senior to whom???
the guy that was in it's Mom's Womb....

sad but very true..

so for you f/a's...

u might want to consider having a union... cuz you might get stapled... cuz.... in AFA's contract it's always.... DOH..
and if you are not AFA.... you won't get DOH.... does not matter who aquire's whom
 
Can I Pour You Another TALL Glass Of DELTA KoolAid!! Drink Up !! :up:

Take another look at that post you quoted from the Drinker.
He pretends he can't understand that AFA's policy of merging w/ a non AFA group is to deal with the other group as they would another AFA carrier, meaning DATE OF HIRE. THAT is why if this Delta Seniority Sorority Group Whatever rejects DOH as suggested by NW AFA, then obviously, it will be sent over to an arbitrator. It's simple deductive reasoning skills "If A=B and B=C, then A must equal C. (Sigh....)