AFA Files Suit In Federal Court

[BABABOOY]

I am sure "loosing their quality of flying" pales in comparison of having our airline merged and absorbed away..while your group
focus on yourselves, maybe you can take a moment and see where we are coming from..
I

Point taken. Hopefully you will see where the Delta F/A's are comming from when the
issue of DOH is beeing forced down our throat from the NW AFA. DOH very well be the end
result however, WE want our SAY. We want a voice. Let it play out.
As I stated earlier, in post 87

From what I see, The "Post Merger" Delta f/a's have already had their
say on the Seniority issue. DOH.
However, Pre merger Delta f/a's were not part of that process.
I belive that many "Pre Merger" Delta f/a's
want is a say. A voice. Let it play out. Let the 13,000 + have a voice.
Sit, talk and then move on. It could very well be DOH. But we won't know
until we sit down with one another.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

From what I see, The "Post Merger" Delta f/a's have already had their
say on the Seniority issue. DOH.
However, Pre merger Delta f/a's were not part of that process.
I belive that many "Pre Merger" Delta f/a's
want is a say. A voice. Let it play out. Let the 13,000 + have a voice.
Sit, talk and then move on. It could very well be DOH. But we won't know
until we sit down with one another.

I think communication is important but I just thought of something: Do you think it's possible for the 14-member SIC panel to get a copy, if they don't already have one (and I'm sure they do) of NW f/a's most recent seniority list, compare it to ours and make a finding/recommendation?
I'm not sure I see what's stopping the Delta SIC from studying the information and coming to a conclusion, be it DOH or a ratio-ranking/relative seniority ranking. In other words, they know NW's f/a's 'official' stance on the subject per AFA (DOH), what do they need to sit down and chat about until the Delta SIC comes to their own findings based on the lists?

 

[BABABOOY]

I think communication is important but I just thought of something: Do you think it's possible for the 14-member SIC panel to get a copy, if they don't already have one (and I'm sure they do) of NW f/a's most recent seniority list, compare it to ours and make a finding/recommendation?
I'm not sure I see what's stopping the Delta SIC from studying the information and coming to a conclusion, be it DOH or a ratio-ranking/relative seniority ranking. In other words, they know NW's f/a's 'official' stance on the subject per AFA (DOH), what do they need to sit down and chat about until the Delta SIC comes to their own findings based on the lists?

Hopefully there isn't anything stopping them from obtaining the NW list.
It's just assumption on my and others part that the "process" is stalled. It could
very well be that they are looking at it. Lets hope. I do know that they have a lot
on their plates and hopefully that is one of them.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Hopefully there isn't anything stopping them from obtaining the NW list.
It's just assumption on my and others part that the "process" is stalled. It could
very well be that they are looking at it. Lets hope. I do know that they have a lot
on their plates and hopefully that is one of them.

So in effect you're agreeing with me---and the 13,000, in fact, DID raise their voices when they nominated and voted on their peers. One pesky problem though, BB, is that... only 25% of the f/a community was interested enough to vote!!! I wonder how many of your fellow party-goers actually voted...the ones that want this done ASAP.
And you agree that quite possibly, the process has not really been stalled at this point in time(as long as SIC has a copy of the NW list.) So I think you might not be buying into all the hype after all and are opening your mind and seeing both sides. If the SIC hasn't even come to their own conclusion based on side -by- side comparison of the lists, then indeed, what's the rush??

 

[Dignity]

Point taken. Hopefully you will see where the Delta F/A's are comming from when the
issue of DOH is beeing forced down our throat from the NW AFA. DOH very well be the end
result however, WE want our SAY. We want a voice. Let it play out.

If I have written something that has made you feel I have an indifferent attitude, I apologize... as it was not my intent.

Strict system seniority is taken very seriously at my airline, and I will leave it at that.

 

[BABABOOY]

So in effect you're agreeing with me---and the 13,000, in fact, DID raise their voices when they nominated and voted on their peers. One pesky problem though, BB, is that... only 25% of the f/a community was interested enough to vote!!! I wonder how many of your fellow party-goers actually voted...the ones that want this done ASAP.
And you agree that quite possibly, the process has not really been stalled at this point in time(as long as SIC has a copy of the NW list.) So I think you might not be buying into all the hype after all and are opening your mind and seeing both sides. If the SIC hasn't even come to their own conclusion based on side -by- side comparison of the lists, then indeed, what's the rush??

Well I know now that the SIC has the NW list. I even have a copy, as a friend just
emailed it to me. The NW list is current July 31 08. And yes I believe the process for now
really isn't stalled as Marianne Bicksler stated in the Salt Lake article. Of course that is their
agenda. As far as my mind opened, and
seeing both sides? It is, some choose to see that I am, others do not.

 

[starlight]

Okay, I'm a newbie and I'm just reading all of this stuff. I'm glad that the Delta SIC has a copy of our seniority list. We have nothing to hide. The AFA, our current representation, should have a full copy of the Delta list. But, that has not been made available because Delta has chosen not to recognize AFA. AFA has been very clear that our position with regard to integration should be date of hire. We believe it is the most fair to all involved. Really, what is there to discuss at this time? I understand the SIC "wanting to have a say" but, you are coming across like you believe that the pre-merger Delta flight attendants should somehow be rewarded. Is the committee just trying to see which "method" best suits pre-merger Delta flight attendants? Why should someone hired after me end up being senior to me for bidding?

AFA is doing exactly what they should be doing........

 

[BABABOOY]

because Delta has chosen not to recognize AFA.

Are you sure this is true?
Where was this stated?

From what I read, it states that Delta wants the Seniority Integration team, AFA and Delta
management to sit down and iron this out. no exclusion of AFA.

AFA is doing exactly what they should be doing........

As they should be. And please keep in mind that the Delta Seniority integration committee will
look out for the best interest of the Pre Merger Delta F/A's, as they should be.

From the Delta Flight Attendant integration committee:

-The Seniority integration committee is committed to honoring and protecting the
established order of the Delta flight attendant seniority list

-Out committee unanimously agreed that the seniority integration process should not
reorder the placement of Delta flight attendants on the current Delta system seniority
list. This principle is well-accepted in seniority integrations and related arbitration awards.

-Our Committee unanimously agreed that we will not alter or undo the prior seniority
integration decisions related to the f/a's who cam e to Delta from Northeast, Western,
or Pan Am.

- Our committee unanimously agreed that we will no look to change Delta's policy regarding
seniority accrual when a a person is a company transfer into the F/A position.

 

[jalbalpa]

Are you sure this is true?
Where was this stated?

From what I read, it states that Delta wants the Seniority Integration team, AFA and Delta
management to sit down and iron this out. no exclusion of AFA.

Delta IFS and Joanne Smith are not used to having to follow due process. What Joanne fails to understand is that at NW the CBA is the law of the land, and not what she feels she should do. AFA is the sole bargaining representative for NW flight attendants, and AFA has a clear merger policy. Date of Hire.

By Joanne Smith asking NW flight attendants to come to the table she is in violation of the NW CBA that NW management has agreed to. There is nothing to negotiate or talk about, its Date of Hire.

There will be a vote this spring to determine if AFA will be the sole representing bargaining agent for the combined workforce. If that effort fails, then Joanne Smith can ask NW to come to the table to negotiate seniority. Notice how most of the memo's sent out are signed by both Julie Showers and Joanne Smith, however this only has Joanne's signature on it. Julie Showers understands the process, something the Delta folks seem to either not understand or choose to ignore. This is what is beautiful about a contract, its in black ink and management cannot go around it.

Joanne Smith and other Delta executives have clearly stated that a Single Operating Certificate will not come before the end of 2009, until then there will be no cross-training or merged workforce regardless of seniority integration.

Once again for the record, the Association of Flight Attendants is the sole bargaining agent for Northwest flight attendants, not Joanne Smith, not anyone else!

 

[Wings]

Julie Showers understands the process, something the Delta folks seem to either not understand or choose to ignore. This is what is beautiful about a contract, its in black ink and management cannot go around it.

And for those who don't know who Julie Showers is ....

She is an attorney - and before taking the SVP Inflight Services position - she was VP of Labor Relations at NWA (the department that handles the negotiations of all labor contracts).

Julie most definitely understands the process and recognizes what constitutes "interference" in NMB elections, etc.

I have no idea if Julie was asked to co-sign this letter ....

If she was asked to sign and refused to do so, at least somebody at the executive level "get's it", and isn't afraid to take a stand based on the letter of the law.

Julie Showers is "no angel", but one thing we can say at NWA is that she is blunt and straight forward. What you see is what you get with her.

 

[Dignity]

a Single Operating Certificate will not come before the end of 2009, until then there will be no cross-training.

Hi jalbalpa,
To my understanding it will be necessary to have full cross training completed in order to obtain a SOC.

 

[Dignity]

What you see is what you get.

by no means is this to be taken as defense, but...

I would rather deal with someone knowing exactly where I stand, than deal with someone who puts on a fake front of being nice..(but has other intentions).

 

[Wings]

by no means is this to be taken as defense, but...

I would rather deal with someone knowing exactly where I stand, than deal with someone who puts on a fake front of being nice..(but has other intentions).

Sorry, if my earlier statement was confusing ....

Dignity's statement above is exactly what I was trying to say. I always know where we stand with Julie Showers.

With Joanne Smith, I'm always trying to figure out what she isn't telling us.

And that (in my book) is a sign of poor "leadership".

 

[jalbalpa]

Well she doesn't really have a background in leading a large group of people, her previous job was Marketing Director at Song...why they stuck her in IFS? No clue!

 

[starlight]

jalbalpa- thanks for writing such an eloquent response regarding AFA's position on representation and seniority integration. I could not have said it better myself.....