AFA Files Suit In Federal Court
- Thread starter LukeAisleWalker
- Start date
BRAVO! This is exactly the way it is and the ONLY way it should be. Many of us are hoping AFA is successful in being the SOLE representative of the combined DL f/a workforce. In the meantime, don't be fooled or intimidated by Joanne Smith or any of DL's mgmt. They are running horribly scared that they will finally have to follow a contract and not change things on a whim!!On yesterdays f/a conference call Joann and Julie both clearly stated that a Soc is NOT required to begin cross-training, and that cross-training will begin in the 2nd quarter/2009 with completion by end of year (also expect to have Soc by Dec, 2009), and potential f/a cross-bids by Jan 2010.
They did however state that if AFA does become bargaining repesentitive for all Delta f/a's, then the two f/a groups will be kept apart until a contract is negotiated., with average contract negotiations taking 33 months, but that cross-training could still continue! We just wouldn't be able to fly on one anothers a/c until a contract has been approved
It is my opinion based on various "hints" that Joann Smith said on this conference call, as well as hearing from other f/a's who have gone to base meetings that Delta (not necessarily the f/a merger committee..so far) favors DOH as the method of intergration (it being the easiest & quickest way to seeing some of those synergies).
Joann also mentioned on the conference call that they are hoping that the DL f/a merger committee will have a recommendation by mid-Jan (hmmm...without NW at table...and they still want a recommendation?...what could possibily be palpable to NW f/a's in this situation?).
BTW...Jalbalpa,
I understand that DOH is clearly AFA's method of intergration, but I was under the understanding that would only be (that easy) in the case of merging with another AFA union. USair/AmericaWest for example. My question is what does AFA's constituation say in the event of seniority intergration with different union? Or no union? What is the exceptable method of intergration then, if the other side doesn't automatically agree to DOH?
They did however state that if AFA does become bargaining repesentitive for all Delta f/a's, then the two f/a groups will be kept apart until a contract is negotiated., with average contract negotiations taking 33 months, but that cross-training could still continue! We just wouldn't be able to fly on one anothers a/c until a contract has been approved
It is my opinion based on various "hints" that Joann Smith said on this conference call, as well as hearing from other f/a's who have gone to base meetings that Delta (not necessarily the f/a merger committee..so far) favors DOH as the method of intergration (it being the easiest & quickest way to seeing some of those synergies).
Joann also mentioned on the conference call that they are hoping that the DL f/a merger committee will have a recommendation by mid-Jan (hmmm...without NW at table...and they still want a recommendation?...what could possibily be palpable to NW f/a's in this situation?).
BTW...Jalbalpa,
I understand that DOH is clearly AFA's method of intergration, but I was under the understanding that would only be (that easy) in the case of merging with another AFA union. USair/AmericaWest for example. My question is what does AFA's constituation say in the event of seniority intergration with different union? Or no union? What is the exceptable method of intergration then, if the other side doesn't automatically agree to DOH?
Here is the link to the AFA merger policy in the constitution.
http://afanet.org/cb/default.asp?id=61
http://afanet.org/cb/default.asp?id=61
Do you have a source of this information?
What I would expect?
If AFA becomes the bargaining agent at DL...
I expect the vote to be sometime in March, I expect the seniority integration to be in place by 3Q 2008, and 1Q 2009...when Joanne Smith expects the 2 groups to be able to fly together.
Why 1Q2009? That give the 2 parties about 9 months to negotiate a contract, and puts AFA at a good time to negotiate a contract.
When fuel was at $48-$50 Ed Bastian said we will save $5 billion in fuel, its not at $36. We also expect to produce $2 billion in synergies with the merger, yes demand is down...but we are adjusting pretty good to it and should turn out one of the largest profits out of all the airlines in the U.S. in 2009.
If AFA becomes the bargaining agent at DL...
I expect the vote to be sometime in March, I expect the seniority integration to be in place by 3Q 2008, and 1Q 2009...when Joanne Smith expects the 2 groups to be able to fly together.
Why 1Q2009? That give the 2 parties about 9 months to negotiate a contract, and puts AFA at a good time to negotiate a contract.
When fuel was at $48-$50 Ed Bastian said we will save $5 billion in fuel, its not at $36. We also expect to produce $2 billion in synergies with the merger, yes demand is down...but we are adjusting pretty good to it and should turn out one of the largest profits out of all the airlines in the U.S. in 2009.
An "SOC" stands for - single operating certificate .... do not confuse that term with "single carrier/single transportation system".
The "SOC" is what will finally bring both carriers together as one. Until that certificate is granted by the government, NWA will operate as a wholly-owned subsidiary of DAL.
A "single carrier/single transportation system" is what will trigger the election for AFA and the IAM at the new DAL. Once the NMB feels that DAL has satisfied this requirement, they will set an election timeline for both union elections. When we know the results of the elections, the seniority list integration process can begin.
Here is a link that helps to illustrate the "Merger Election Time Line" - click on it for a .pdf. - http://www.deltaafa.org/default2.asp?active_page_id=80
Cross-training of FAs can begin, but the "SOC" must be granted before FAs can actually fly together. DAL has always stated that the "SOC" would take close to 18 months to receive. The seniority integration issue must also be settled before FAs can fly together (under the RLA).
You have to listen very carefully when you hear management talk these days at DAL and read between the lines ....
It's my opinion that Joanne Smith and others throw one term out (rather than explaining the difference between the two) to continue to confuse the groups and create dissension.
And as we all know (by now) - dissension is used to divide us in the hope that a majority will not vote for representation.
FAs need to start focusing on the big picture here .... there is always more to the story than what first meets the eye.
The "SOC" is what will finally bring both carriers together as one. Until that certificate is granted by the government, NWA will operate as a wholly-owned subsidiary of DAL.
A "single carrier/single transportation system" is what will trigger the election for AFA and the IAM at the new DAL. Once the NMB feels that DAL has satisfied this requirement, they will set an election timeline for both union elections. When we know the results of the elections, the seniority list integration process can begin.
Here is a link that helps to illustrate the "Merger Election Time Line" - click on it for a .pdf. - http://www.deltaafa.org/default2.asp?active_page_id=80
Cross-training of FAs can begin, but the "SOC" must be granted before FAs can actually fly together. DAL has always stated that the "SOC" would take close to 18 months to receive. The seniority integration issue must also be settled before FAs can fly together (under the RLA).
You have to listen very carefully when you hear management talk these days at DAL and read between the lines ....
It's my opinion that Joanne Smith and others throw one term out (rather than explaining the difference between the two) to continue to confuse the groups and create dissension.
And as we all know (by now) - dissension is used to divide us in the hope that a majority will not vote for representation.
FAs need to start focusing on the big picture here .... there is always more to the story than what first meets the eye.
Kev3188
Veteran
Very well put. They are doing the same thing for Ground Ops.
With this mgmt. team, it's critical that everyone pay attention to not only what's being said, but also what they're *not* saying.
there are going to be so many aircraft types....
777-200LR and 777-200ER... 767-400ER,300ER,300... 757-200,200ER,300... 737-800,700,200... MD-88... MD-90...A319, A320, A330, 747-400, 747-200 charter, DC9-30,40,50 and then! 787.
are we all going to have to go through an expanded timeframe such as initial again(they cant train people in a few days on so many aircraft types)?? can you imagine yearly required HOT?? the size of your manual??
It would make sense to me anyway to divide the training and qualifications based on region. if a FA is based in the North Region(DTW BOS NYC) they are trained on the aircraft deployed/based at that region and so on...if a FA successfully transfers to a South region(ATL...ext) or another region.. they receive additional training on aircraft that may not be based in another...
or simply maintain qualifications based on aircraft that is assigned at a single base and if a FA chooses to transfer to another receives training based on that aircraft assignment..at that base.
you know??
- Thread Starter
- #160
Hi Dignity,
Actually we only have the 737-700 and 800 now....200s are gone.
I'm curious--the 747-200 for charters--do all bases fly that a/c according to booked charters or are just certain NW bases current on that a/c?
And yes...it's going to be interesting to see how the training is done. At DL now, not everyone is qualified on the 777...it's not mandatory, at least not in non-ATL/NYC bases. I would suspect it might be the same for the 744 and perhaps the A330s for us and the 777 for you guys. But who knows? They may want us all to be qualified on everything regardless. Will be interesting....
thanks Luke about the 737-200, I have it on a list that I thought was current.. apparently not!
we are trained on every type of equipment regardless of base, I believe for a short time some were not trained on the 330 because of their base, or being on leave, but that is pretty much resolved today.
the charters can go to any base, at any time, and I have noticed sometimes the patterns just appear in open time...and then sometimes they are available with the bid packet. since we are all trained on everything! including the 747-200(even though there are only two) it just appears as needed! we also have charters that in order to fly is necessary to have an interview..sports charters...press charters...ext.
lets say...for example.. only a 767 is added to a NW base(and that is it), I would hope that would be the only aircraft necessary to obtain qualifications(at this time to satisfy a SOC) at that particular base, since you have mentioned that 777 fly certain bases and it is not mandatory.. hopefully they can align the fleet as necessary and then train based on FA current base and what aircraft are positioned for bid..at that base. it just seems like an overwhelming amount of information on top of recurrent, HOT, new policies and procedures, any new training and of course post-merger aircraft training to absorb in a year. of course being up for it, but it is a lot!
the fleet needs to be simplified!
- Thread Starter
- #163
I agree...it's a lot of info!!
Btw, I heard recently that DL will be adopting the term "Purser" for our current "Flight Leader" designation. I always liked "Purser" and think it is far more professional and indicative of an International airline.
I agree.
I am not a Purser, but fully appreciate the Purser Program and the name.
