Aircraft maint issues
- Thread starter conehead777
- Start date
All BS aside the reality of it is that the TWU contract is the worst in the industry and the IAM contract is the second worst contract in the industry. But compared to ours yours is lots better. That doesn't mean we'll vote for your contract. As far as TWU out voting the IAM that is only if the Association allows it. Right now although you have one third the numbers you have equal voting rights at the negotiating table. Not fair but nothing about the Association is fair. This is an abortion of a merger as our airlines were almost opposites in every respect but the dumbest guy gets to run the show. Parker has no clue how to run the largest airline in the world and he won't admit it. Customer service is not important to him and it is hurting us.
Hackman
Veteran
- Sep 30, 2003
- 3,997
- 898
Coming out on a pubic forum and disrespecting another AMTs group work performance isn't real smart, especially ones from an airline that saved your failing airline from Chapter 7 grinder. You made yourself an enemy here, and refused to rescind your inflammatory statements against fellow AMTs. I guess that's the American Worst trait, looking at the "Eastie/Westie" pilot war AA inherited. I suppose your job performance is above reproach, when the man says to jump, you get up off your knees to get on those brakes and tires the AA deadbeats left for you all by your lonely self. Awesome you are Mr. Aviation. Congrats, a one-hand clap for you.
The IAm US Air contract is nothing to crow about, and no, the TWu members don't "like" your IAm contract. It sucks, ours just sucks a lot worse from the fake BK sellout 14 years ago. You boys got a nice raise because of the merger and now are fat and happy at AA. The IAm not joining our fight against DUI Doug and his henchmen was as predicted, just not interested, we got ours. Having the ponzi scheme IAm pension is also a non starter. I would hope that you want more that just a 3% 401k match instead of your failing IAm pension, that isn't even worth a discussion. Sounds like something Seymour would propose.
B737 driver
Veteran
- Jul 6, 2017
- 3,381
- 209
I rest my case after I see the comments from the American guys to US air , TWA, America West guys, you are all techs, and it looks like it will always be us and them. Management just has to sit back and watch you fight, so they win.
1AA
Veteran
Us and them because the unions created that division in order to stay in control over the members. If we union members stuck together on just a few major issues the unions would have a cow because the company would put the blame on them.
If anyone thinks I'm wrong about the unions creating this division then I have one perfect example.
"THE ASSOCIATION "
Ask yourself who wanted this association?
We were told we had a choice on the Association.
We were told we were going to have a vote on the association.
In the end the association was created by the two unions and AFL-CIO.
So the division of the many groups in the association was by design to keep the dues flowing for all parties and continue to keep the membership divided even more now than ever before. Next time the union or association talks solidarity and unity ask them to start with themselves first. Lead by example. Won't happen.
Unless we abolish the association nothing is going to change. Another example is TWU pickets and no IAM pickets.
TWU is making noise and the IAM is in the corner enjoying the cheese. That's division 101 supported by the association. The association wants it that way. Understand yet gentlemen?
I hope so. If not by now then you never will. Work safe and stay out of trouble.
And the company loves to sit back and watch it too. They love it just as much as the asso does, if not more. I have no idea if you can, but you mentioned about abolishing the union, is there steps that can be made to start the process? Or must it take a full blown union replacement to get any changes done?
1AA
Veteran
According to what was explained to me at a union meeting a while back, there is a provision in the language of the association that the president of either union can request in writing to exit from the association. But both sides have to be in agreement. I believe this was placed in the language to show good faith but in reality it will never happen as long as the AFL-CIO has a say. Which they do.
So, either pres. could request to exit the asso. but it must be agreed to by both sides. To show good faith? I don't think so. That the exact same as the language TWU/AA agreed to for the contract re-opener. Either side could request it, but it will not happen unless both sides agree to it. Basically means, "it will never happen". I think if it were me, I would dig a lot deeper into the by-laws myself to find the language about getting rid of them. Recalls, petitions, votes or a mere full replacement required. I would never believe what anyone says at a union meeting from either side at this point. They will tell you just enough to keep the membership where they are and not look any further. The membership should be very aware of all their options once the contract is made public.
1AA
Veteran
Sent to me from a Co worker. This is from a Facebook group page.
Almost all unionized work groups of the worlds largest Airline , American Airlines & USAir merger have their contract in place. There's only one group pending and is having a difficult time getting what was promised by Doug Parker prior to his request to help him with the merger.
Yes the TWU and IAM, who have legalized mutual agreement to represent these two groups as the Association.
The Transport Workers Union who is group who has the most members of the Association , with almost 27,000, while the IAM who is the other portion of the Association brings a bit under 5,000 according to the list of seniority posted. The two unions have had a different history in work rules , and these differences in both work rules have contributed to the current negotiations stalling, delayed , and have procrastinated making the parties involved irate towards each other.
One side of Association does not want the LAA high priced medical
Insuranse and wants the LUS medical that's about 30% less expensive. The other side of the Association has very strong and strict work rules that protect their union jobs from being outsourced, doesn't allow any other group doing those jobs under no other conditions, and has a more protective manner and approach defending these negotiations.
One group has always had the advantage in pay and in many times has lead the Industry or has been very competitive with three big dominating airlines, DAL, & UAL.
Almost always when unions negotiate or in negotiations, all comments, agreements are kept in confidential until both parties agree to make a public announcement to the membership and society. But recently American Airlines management post on Jetnet the contents of what had been agreed upon, which is very uncommon for American Airlines or the Unions. This was done due to the finger pointing of who was deliberately delaying the negotiations. The company is stating that the unions are doing it deliberately and the unions are blaming the company for offering new work rules and terms that are not favorable, nor acceptable , nor are the leading in the industry. To add more the company has asked or has mentioned that some of Aircraft Maintenance jobs will be eliminated and outsourced to other countries like Brazil, and Salvador, as United Airlines is currently doing. These terms are defined by the unions as a concessionary contract, and it's not acceptable for those in the Association especially the TWU.
The Association is divided equally by two hubs from each side . Two from LUS and Two from LAA. Even though the TWU out numbers the IAM , this is how it was define as for those who will represent the Association while negotiating with the company. Many on the TWU side are upset that this was unbalanced group that was agreed upon and the negotiations committee was not developed and represented by the amount of employees per hub or ratio of membership.
Now the TWU feels that they need to be more active and have started informational picketing in hubs like DFW, MIA, and ORD. For the most only few of the IAM have shown up to participate in these informational picketing actions, and that information is not fully confirmed, but the turn out of the TWU has been outstanding. There has been support and presence of our Pilots and FAs walking showing full support of what solidarity means and stands for, and full support from many other unions around America.
Airline People supports the TWU and its efforts for the leading industry contract as promised by the current CEO of American Airlines, and we encourage all workers of American Airlines, UAL, DAL, South West Airlines, and any union person who understands what it is to work for a dollar .
Please support and share this information.
Keep Labor strong....
Share the wealth.......
Almost all unionized work groups of the worlds largest Airline , American Airlines & USAir merger have their contract in place. There's only one group pending and is having a difficult time getting what was promised by Doug Parker prior to his request to help him with the merger.
Yes the TWU and IAM, who have legalized mutual agreement to represent these two groups as the Association.
The Transport Workers Union who is group who has the most members of the Association , with almost 27,000, while the IAM who is the other portion of the Association brings a bit under 5,000 according to the list of seniority posted. The two unions have had a different history in work rules , and these differences in both work rules have contributed to the current negotiations stalling, delayed , and have procrastinated making the parties involved irate towards each other.
One side of Association does not want the LAA high priced medical
Insuranse and wants the LUS medical that's about 30% less expensive. The other side of the Association has very strong and strict work rules that protect their union jobs from being outsourced, doesn't allow any other group doing those jobs under no other conditions, and has a more protective manner and approach defending these negotiations.
One group has always had the advantage in pay and in many times has lead the Industry or has been very competitive with three big dominating airlines, DAL, & UAL.
Almost always when unions negotiate or in negotiations, all comments, agreements are kept in confidential until both parties agree to make a public announcement to the membership and society. But recently American Airlines management post on Jetnet the contents of what had been agreed upon, which is very uncommon for American Airlines or the Unions. This was done due to the finger pointing of who was deliberately delaying the negotiations. The company is stating that the unions are doing it deliberately and the unions are blaming the company for offering new work rules and terms that are not favorable, nor acceptable , nor are the leading in the industry. To add more the company has asked or has mentioned that some of Aircraft Maintenance jobs will be eliminated and outsourced to other countries like Brazil, and Salvador, as United Airlines is currently doing. These terms are defined by the unions as a concessionary contract, and it's not acceptable for those in the Association especially the TWU.
The Association is divided equally by two hubs from each side . Two from LUS and Two from LAA. Even though the TWU out numbers the IAM , this is how it was define as for those who will represent the Association while negotiating with the company. Many on the TWU side are upset that this was unbalanced group that was agreed upon and the negotiations committee was not developed and represented by the amount of employees per hub or ratio of membership.
Now the TWU feels that they need to be more active and have started informational picketing in hubs like DFW, MIA, and ORD. For the most only few of the IAM have shown up to participate in these informational picketing actions, and that information is not fully confirmed, but the turn out of the TWU has been outstanding. There has been support and presence of our Pilots and FAs walking showing full support of what solidarity means and stands for, and full support from many other unions around America.
Airline People supports the TWU and its efforts for the leading industry contract as promised by the current CEO of American Airlines, and we encourage all workers of American Airlines, UAL, DAL, South West Airlines, and any union person who understands what it is to work for a dollar .
Please support and share this information.
Keep Labor strong....
Share the wealth.......
WeAAsles
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2007
- 23,195
- 5,343
Well, since the company wants more outsourcing and the TWU does not, and that seems to be the major obstacle, then boys and girls, we are most likely NOT going to get a contract anytime soon. I believe we are headed for an even longer period, ala United/Continental.
The way I see it is this: If the company wants to give us an industry leading contract, they are going to want the outsourcing levels of those carriers of whom we want comparable or better wages and benefits and language. Plain and simple.
The hangar is HAPPENING and there is no stopping it. It will be staffed by AA employees. It is no different than Asia, Europe and the Carribean where we have AA mechanics doing checks.
GP needs to be reminded that the horse already left the barn. He sits there with his Picasso and Harley Davidson artwork behind him stating that the outsourcing will stop when in fact SA is increasing the level of work they do. current language ALLOWS for what has been happening
Frankly I am getting tired of hearing only from GP....Where are the others on the NC? Where are their views? The FAA already rebuked the union's petition to the Trump administration he is still trying to be Jimmy Hoffa.
I have said this numerous times before: We should never have to give any concession ever again considering what we lost in 2003 and BK...But that is NOT how it works.
We are stalemated and I am planning on retiring under the current contract and I have a few years left.
I Agree, the membership has yet to see the full company offer. I know the International is primarily interested in maintaining headcount for future dues. Problem is, they are using us as pawns. So, here we go with another year of reduced holidays at an inferior pay rate, another year of reduced vacation time, another year of reduced sick pay, another year of reduced sick time accrual, another year of reduced shift differential, the list goes on. The way I see it, the TWU owes us, as well as the company. I can't speak for the rest of the groups - but A/C Maintenance has been screwed by both for way too long.
Look, the pickets are nice, but pretty much window dressing. Either we have a unified effort that gets some attention, or our group will never be taken seriously. As MM points out, the horse has left the barn. I know it sucks, and we all would prefer to keep maintenance in house on USA soil. I have never seen the TWU win at anything except scamming to keep the AMFA out, or screwing AMTs in general. Now they are negotiating roughly 2 days per month for 2 years, and we sit and accept that. Then they patronize us with uninformative, lame updates - that most of us find insulting.
This negotiation committee needs to get us a contract we can vote on - soon! The company brain trust; in it's eternal wisdom, intends on outsourcing more, get us our industry leading contract in exchange for it!
B737 driver
Veteran
- Jul 6, 2017
- 3,381
- 209
Believe me gentlemen, AMFA is nothing to write home about every other group at SWA has come an agreement to vote on, they either excepted it, or rejected it, and then went back to fix what was wrong and sent it back out for a vote. We got national officers positions still hardly any changes. We had electronic updates, meetings, you look on Facebook, arguing about something to vote on. I don't see any real difference in AMFA and other industrial unions, and I have been at SWA for over 23 years.
