Aircraft maint issues

[Deleted member 14439]

I guess T-SHIRT day didn't pan out as expected.

Shocking!!

 

[Topcat187]

Forget about the t shirt day crap. Everytime we get a new contract we give work rules and benefits away. I am in no rush for a JCBA. All you guys who think we are going to get back everything or almost everything we gave on 2003 are dreaming. They will throw some $$$ our way and some holidays and take away more work rules. Guys are blind. They only see the money. No thanks. Nothing should be given up for restoration of our 2003 raping. If we had a union with balls we would have been better better off years ago.

Im not following you, you say you're tired of being raped and then say you're in no hurry for change.

 

[MetalMover]

Anyway I can agree with you about more change coming. I firmly believe the policy was put into place now to be ready for the next thing to take place. Why would the company and the association agree to put this into action unless they know a big change is coming . .

Are you suggesting that possible "change" might involve a major movement of mechanics around the system hence the change in CS policy....you know, so people can make their "commuting" easier?????

Just spitballing here........

 

[swamt]

Since the JCBA thread is locked I wanted to share some industry info to you all. UPS Mechanics file for release from Mediation...

http://teamsterair.org/node/2525

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Yes, I know the type...And again I will ask the question..."Does working doubles for an entire week seem safe?"

I agree that working doubles in overhaul is not safe. One size does not fit all.

 

[DallasConehead]

• So, do we think the company is going to have 2 policies?
• One for the line that allows CSing and 1 for OH that does not?
• Is the line going to dictate to OH or is OH going to dictate to the line if theres disagreement?
• Will the OH people try to exclude CSing from the JCBA to the dismay of line folks?
• Seems like folks are claiming its unsafe but it goes on all the time at the line and no incidences have occurred but are these same folks that think its unsafe going to dictate to the line what they can do?
• And if not then how are you going to police yourself if its included in the agreement which line people want it to be so the company cant arbitrarily change it?

So many questions, so few answers.

Whats the NCs position? Anyone know?

I don't CS myself, but appreciate that its there an available if I need it.

 

[FLYNFISH]

Are you suggesting that possible "change" might involve a major movement of mechanics around the system hence the change in CS policy....you know, so people can make their "commuting" easier?????

Just spitballing here........

I don't think it's to make commuting easier. I think it's to get us in line with the IAM way of doing things. It's my understanding they are 7 day coverage at their bases. I mean true 7 day. M/T, W/Th, F/S etc. It's apparent we are adopting their way of running things everywhere else.

 

[FLYNFISH]

• So, do we think the company is going to have 2 policies?
• One for the line that allows CSing and 1 for OH that does not?
• Is the line going to dictate to OH or is OH going to dictate to the line if theres disagreement?
• Will the OH people try to exclude CSing from the JCBA to the dismay of line folks?
• Seems like folks are claiming its unsafe but it goes on all the time at the line and no incidences have occurred but are these same folks that think its unsafe going to dictate to the line what they can do?
• And if not then how are you going to police yourself if its included in the agreement which line people want it to be so the company cant arbitrarily change it?

So many questions, so few answers.

Whats the NCs position? Anyone know?

I don't CS myself, but appreciate that its there an available if I need it.

They have had 2 different ways of cs. As for safety, your right it's been going on forever working long hours. My question is where is the safety line? Is it 8, 12, 14 hours? It's safe and ok at 15 but not 16 hours. The policy allows 2 doubles per week. Not working a week of doubles. And no OH shouldn't dictate the line guys policy. It's a uniform policy for you to use or not. As I said in an earlier post I don't see many here using it. What really amazes me is the negative buzz about this but ask anyone here about the quick announcement of Jetnet from Isom and Seymour about AA building a new maintence facility in South America . And it's like huh?

 

[Real tired]

I don't think it's to make commuting easier. I think it's to get us in line with the IAM way of doing things. It's my understanding they are 7 day coverage at their bases. I mean true 7 day. M/T, W/Th, F/S etc. It's apparent we are adopting their way of running things everywhere else.

The company I work for frowns on commuting. In fact, have a swap and miss it because of missing your commuter flight, do that 3 times and they'll fire you. The first time you might lose your swap privileges for a time period, though.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

• So, do we think the company is going to have 2 policies?
• One for the line that allows CSing and 1 for OH that does not?
• Is the line going to dictate to OH or is OH going to dictate to the line if theres disagreement?
• Will the OH people try to exclude CSing from the JCBA to the dismay of line folks?
• Seems like folks are claiming its unsafe but it goes on all the time at the line and no incidences have occurred but are these same folks that think its unsafe going to dictate to the line what they can do?
• And if not then how are you going to police yourself if its included in the agreement which line people want it to be so the company cant arbitrarily change it?

So many questions, so few answers.

Whats the NCs position? Anyone know?

I don't CS myself, but appreciate that its there an available if I need it.

Like it or not O/H and line are different. There is no line operation where there is only one shift. There are several O/H operations that only run a day shift and nothing else. So these guys have no options at all. Sound fair? Of course it doesn't. As an O/H guy I do not and will not dictate what happens on the line. If you guys like it then great. But why can't there be a different policy for O/H. I think there could have been some kind of policy for O/H that would have taken into account those who work in a one shift operation. One policy for line and one for O/H would just make sense.

 

[Real tired]

They have had 2 different ways of cs. As for safety, your right it's been going on forever working long hours. My question is where is the safety line? Is it 8, 12, 14 hours? It's safe and ok at 15 but not 16 hours. The policy allows 2 doubles per week. Not working a week of doubles. And no OH shouldn't dictate the line guys policy. It's a uniform policy for you to use or not. As I said in an earlier post I don't see many here using it. What really amazes me is the negative buzz about this but ask anyone here about the quick announcement of Jetnet from Isom and Seymour about AA building a new maintence facility in South America . And it's like huh?

I can't believe there is a negative buzz about swaps and people wouldn't use them. Swaps are the greatest thing. We can't live without them.

We went for a time with our swaps restricted and fought for a more liberal policy like we have now. I'd like to see it eased up just a little more. People around here beg you for swaps.

You don't have to use them if you don't want to, but if the new policy is like ours, there will be only one contractual policy for all areas. Just 1 set of rules.

If your shop is only a 5 day, 1 shift, 8 hour shop, and everyone has the same days off, you don't get to swap. If it's a 7 day shop, you swap your days off. If it's a 24 hour shop, then you shift swap. If it's 24/7, and everybody has different days off, then it gets fun.

 

[FLYNFISH]

I can't believe there is a negative buzz about swaps and people wouldn't use them. Swaps are the greatest thing. We can't live without them.

We went for a time with our swaps restricted and fought for a more liberal policy like we have now. I'd like to see it eased up just a little more. People around here beg you for swaps.

You don't have to use them if you don't want to, but if the new policy is like ours, there will be only one contractual policy for all areas. Just 1 set of rules.

If your shop is only a 5 day, 1 shift, 8 hour shop, and everyone has the same days off, you don't get to swap. If it's a 7 day shop, you swap your days off. If it's a 24 hour shop, then you shift swap. If it's 24/7, and everybody has different days off, then it gets fun.

I've worked it both ways. I prefer having a cs policy to use when needed. I won't use it like i did years ago but thankful its here. I understand not all feel this way but we can agree to disagree. We just have different views on it. It wont roll out perfectly but once the bugs get worked out it will be ok.

 

[swamt]

It starts on Monday. Long overdue. I agree 100% with you. The thing I see happening is most wont use it. Tulsa is a unique place. I know many guys here that have never used their flight benefits. I'm talking about guys with 20-30 years. They have no desire to go anywhere outside a 30 mile radius of the house. So the idea of working extra hours so you could possibly have a 4 day weekend for a quick get out of town, probably not going to happen. Also we are all getting older and slower. I started in Nashville way back when. We were all over the map! To have this cs policy at 25 years old now that's a good party!

So you think allowing aircraft mechanics to work doubles all week is safe? So they work 16 hours a day....How much sleep and rest do you think they are getting? After all they do have to go home, do things OTHER than sleep...And of course, after all, there is NO sleeping on duty.....

Sounds like a great idea to me....The walking dead working on aircraft....

^^Exactly^^
I realize change is coming as it has for years it's just my opinion that we are far less efficient than we were a decade ago and it started with breaking up the crews from a specialty ie systems, avionics and wing,cargo and interior crews. When this was the case the crews got VERY good at their area of expertise. The same goes for component shops, we will now work on multiple different components and may not work the same one for weeks or months thereby eliminating any efficiencies. Can we work on a different component or aircraft area, absolutely it will just take longer.
Years ago when I hired in a manager who slipped a check thereby not supplying an aircraft for revenue got seriously chewed out, enter Carmine Morono with the "Pulse" line and you have people running all over the hangar with Crew Chiefs not even realizing he is assigned to them then getting very little done. Then when the plane is late for Revenue service management simply makes it a "Drop In" and their plan looks good for them on paper but in reality we lost revenue miles.
So FLYNFISH my comment was simply that this new policy is just another step toward inefficiency, and now people will not push for getting that week of vacation back because they spend half the week at work but get a nice little weekend for it. I won't be one of the shift swap people as I can hardly stand eight hours in the place anymore and I will add there are more changes coming and you probably won't like them.
If I work 17 hours straight I would rather have 4 at time and 1/2 and 4 at double time. JMO.

I can't believe there is a negative buzz about swaps and people wouldn't use them. Swaps are the greatest thing. We can't live without them.

We went for a time with our swaps restricted and fought for a more liberal policy like we have now. I'd like to see it eased up just a little more. People around here beg you for swaps.

You don't have to use them if you don't want to, but if the new policy is like ours, there will be only one contractual policy for all areas. Just 1 set of rules.

If your shop is only a 5 day, 1 shift, 8 hour shop, and everyone has the same days off, you don't get to swap. If it's a 7 day shop, you swap your days off. If it's a 24 hour shop, then you shift swap. If it's 24/7, and everybody has different days off, then it gets fun.

You get use to the hours. Power naps at breaks and lunch. And must prepare prior to work week starting.

FLYNFISH, Yes we all are getting slower and older, hence the advantage of day trades. You don't have to trade shifts if you don't want to. If you just want the day off and do not wanna repay the other guy just list it as a give-away. This means I would ask you to work for me but we both understand that I will not work for you. Extra money for you (8-10 hours) and I get more time off.

Most people are up longer than 16 hours anyway it's just not as recognizable as when you are at work for 16 straight, so it does take a little mental preparedness as well.

2ndGENAMT, I too use to say the same thing that I will only work a double or triple for the overtime pay. But I don't want to do that any more, getting older and slower. Now days I enjoy more time off instead of how much O/T can I work this year, a MAJOR stress relieve.

Real Tired, Your right most all (98%) will say they cannot live without the trades. Most have reconfigured their work lives around day trades to improve their home off times. From your post I must ask, can you guys trade with mechanics in other departments? In other words a structures overhaul mechanic could work for a shop, line, hangr ron, line ron, c-check mechanics and vise-versa? This way the guys with only one shift, 8 hours can still enjoy the day trading policy.

 

[Living in Reality]

Remember when on another page I said we needed a separate CS policy between line and Hangar, and everybody called me names and told me how stupid I was? Maybe if we had a union to say NO once in a while we would have some better work rules!

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Article about unsafe airline maintenance practices at foreign MRO's.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/11/airplane-maintenance-disturbing-truth