American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[1AA]

And where was this information at thru the entire nego's weez? Why all of a sudden is the NC asking for everyone to get the info as it was never put out before?? And the ONLY reason they are just now trying to get the info. out is because the company released all the info. Period. End of story. You can't keep the membership in the dark for all these years then all of a sudden expect all to rise to the occasion and fully support this asso.
Why is this asso. soooo scared to allow the members to vote on it? Let them decide like AMFA did with us on our first offer...

Like I mentioned on a earlier post. The association was forced to open up a bit. First was after the AMP drive and now again in more detail with a podcast due to the companies release of their documents. The association asks the membership to be patient and support the NC. Many of the union members no longer trust the association at face value since they straight out lied to us about a vote for representation. That was in writing signed by the union. There just is no more trust and faith in the association and negotiations. You can spin it which ever way you want but that's the truth. The association planted the weeds in the garden and they are trying to convince the membership that its roses in the flower pot. Even miracle grow won't help this far into negotiations.

 

[dfw gen]

Where did you hear what they were going to do and who did you hear it from? Maybe they still are planning to do more than the videos?

Did you notice the amount of paper they had on that table BTW?

View attachment 14406

Yes i did. I also noticed most of it is jot not available to the rank and file...

 

[dfw gen]

Like I mentioned on a earlier post. The association was forced to open up a bit. First was after the AMP drive and now again in more detail with a podcast due to the companies release of their documents. The association asks the membership to be patient and support the NC. Many of the union members no longer trust the association at face value since they straight out lied to us about a vote for representation. That was in writing signed by the union. There just is no more trust and faith in the association and negotiations. You can spin it which ever way you want but that's the truth. The association planted the weeds in the garden and they are trying to convince the membership that its roses in the flower pot. Even miracle grow won't help this far into negotiations.

I have to admit you have a valid point. The video is something, but i think someone mentioned it was amateurist. Where is the slick side by side comparison explaining each position. The company can squeeze one out and spin it, why cant we stop the spin and put the damn thing out already. Its not that complicated, or is it? The association is NOT HELPING THEMSELVES, in fact their response up to know is not inspiring. Are they that dense and uncaring? Or are they that secure in their position that they really dont care what the membership wants? HOW TO SAY IT ANY CLEARER IM NOT SURE BUT THE COMPANY IS KICKING YOUR ASS. AND HAVING YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND JUST MAKES IT THAT MUCH EASIER FOR THEM.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

I have to admit you have a valid point. The video is something, but i think someone mentioned it was amateurist. Where is the slick side by side comparison explaining each position. The company can squeeze one out and spin it, why cant we stop the spin and put the damn thing out already. Its not that complicated, or is it? The association is NOT HELPING THEMSELVES, in fact their response up to know is not inspiring. Are they that dense and uncaring? Or are they that secure in their position that they really dont care what the membership wants? HOW TO SAY IT ANY CLEARER IM NOT SURE BUT THE COMPANY IS KICKING YOUR ASS. AND HAVING YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND JUST MAKES IT THAT MUCH EASIER FOR THEM.

BINGO!!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!

 

[1AA]

I have to admit you have a valid point. The video is something, but i think someone mentioned it was amateurist. Where is the slick side by side comparison explaining each position. The company can squeeze one out and spin it, why cant we stop the spin and put the damn thing out already. Its not that complicated, or is it? The association is NOT HELPING THEMSELVES, in fact their response up to know is not inspiring. Are they that dense and uncaring? Or are they that secure in their position that they really dont care what the membership wants? HOW TO SAY IT ANY CLEARER IM NOT SURE BUT THE COMPANY IS KICKING YOUR ASS. AND HAVING YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND JUST MAKES IT THAT MUCH EASIER FOR THEM.

The company has a professional approach to the employees that are represented by the association. The association in response was at a level that shows they can not live up to the companies level. The association needs to go one for one with professional negotiators and debates. Clearly not what I saw on the podcast. You know there is a problem when the association not only flat out lies to its members and signs the updates with generic titles.

 

[skinvalve]

US flag displayed behind committee is not properly hung. Blue goes on left.

 

[B737 driver]

US flag displayed behind committee is not properly hung. Blue goes on left.

Blue field always on the left.

 

[B737 driver]

The company has a professional approach to the employees that are represented by the association. The association in response was at a level that shows they can not live up to the companies level. The association needs to go one for one with professional negotiators and debates. Clearly not what I saw on the podcast. You know there is a problem when the association not only flat out lies to its members and signs the updates with generic titles.

Is the company still negotiating with you guys on jetnet? How much is actually left to sign off on your scope language?

 

[1AA]

Is the company still negotiating with you guys on jetnet? How much is actually left to sign off on your scope language?

I really don't know what is going on anymore. They never really negotiated on jetnet. They posted their proposal and the current articles that have been agreed upon by both parties. Association is not budging on the IAMPF and IAM medical plan. The company is not changing its position on current scope proposals. The company stated there is room for improvement on scope. Unfortunately the association won't budge on the two items I mentioned to improve scope and other compensation such as vacation, overtime, field trips and medical expense caps. The association in writing (which has proved to be worthless) wants to put all members in the IAMPF in some manner. They also mentioned in negotiations that they want association members in the IAM medical plan. I'm not sure where the association now stands on these issues since information is vague and not credible anymore. The membership has lost faith and trust in negotiations and the association contrary to what the forum clown will post here.

 

[WeAAsles]

I really don't know what is going on anymore. They never really negotiated on jetnet. They posted their proposal and the current articles that have been agreed upon by both parties. Association is not budging on the IAMPF and IAM medical plan. The company is not changing its position on current scope proposals. The company stated there is room for improvement on scope. Unfortunately the association won't budge on the two items I mentioned to improve scope and other compensation such as vacation, overtime, field trips and medical expense caps. The association in writing (which has proved to be worthless) wants to put all members in the IAMPF in some manner. They also mentioned in negotiations that they want association members in the IAM medical plan. I'm not sure where the association now stands on these issues since information is vague and not credible anymore. The membership has lost faith and trust in negotiations and the association contrary to what the forum clown will post here.

Yes they’re trying to get all of us in the IAMNPF despite the fact that the Company and Tom Regan in the Video said otherwise.

You guys can believe or say what you want among yourselves and you probably will have a few very very stupid people believe it as well but the majority are not as stupid as you obviously wish they were.

 

[B737 driver]

I really don't know what is going on anymore. They never really negotiated on jetnet. They posted their proposal and the current articles that have been agreed upon by both parties. Association is not budging on the IAMPF and IAM medical plan. The company is not changing its position on current scope proposals. The company stated there is room for improvement on scope. Unfortunately the association won't budge on the two items I mentioned to improve scope and other compensation such as vacation, overtime, field trips and medical expense caps. The association in writing (which has proved to be worthless) wants to put all members in the IAMPF in some manner. They also mentioned in negotiations that they want association members in the IAM medical plan. I'm not sure where the association now stands on these issues since information is vague and not credible anymore. The membership has lost faith and trust in negotiations and the association contrary to what the forum clown will post here.

AMFA held fast on not gutting our scope, because for the first 5 years, the company tried to buy it. Last year the T/A failed because the full retro payments were not in the package. We moved on international outsourcing with C check lines we are not doing anyway to pay for it, land kept our scope. The Association driving for the IAM postion , when you know the company will not move, is stupid, I have done negotiations and systems boards in the past, you have to move, but not give the store away. All this does is lead to ice by the mediator, because American is way to big to strike or ever be released.Especially in MIA, DFW, JFK, LGA, and Chicago!

 

[dfw gen]

Yes they’re trying to get all of us in the IAMNPF despite the fact that the Company and Tom Regan in the Video said otherwise.

You guys can believe or say what you want among yourselves and you probably will have a few very very stupid people believe it as well but the majority are not as stupid as you obviously wish they were.

i have to agree with you, unfortunately my agreement is based on the company wanting out of it. i also have to say anything coming out of the association can change at any time. again i reference the no vote on the association. the promise of more "material" coming out of over the weekend (not sure which weekend). there is a serious credibility issue and it very clear the effort to solve it is minimal at best. the associations response to the company proposal is not what was expected or what the membership wanted, and not in a timely. again it appears to be a lame attempt to placate the masses a "let them eat cake" type of response....

 

[WeAAsles]

i have to agree with you, unfortunately my agreement is based on the company wanting out of it.

I took out all the other stuff because it’s really gotten to the point of ridiculousness and over the top now.

How is YOUR agreement based on the Company wanting out of the IAMNPF? I didn’t hear Tom Regan (IAM Lead Negotiator) say anything at all about us being included in those talks.

For TWU Members they’re asking for a 10% Contribution to our 401K period.

For IAM Members they need to be bought out of the IAMNPF under the agreement the Company signed if they wanted to do so long before we ever came into the picture. Or the Company can continue and put that extra value into a 401K account for those Members?

The Company just priced $750 Million of Senior Unsecured Notes to be directed towards Pension Payments.

The Company is required to make a $900 Million payment this year to our Frozen DBP’s and if they want out of the IAMNPF they need to pay $320 Million which can be negotiated to be paid out at a time frame up to 20 years if mutually agreed to.

My guess on that payment like any other payment is the longer they take to pay off the debt, the more it will cost them.

 

[MetalMover]

Yes they’re trying to get all of us in the IAMNPF despite the fact that the Company and Tom Regan in the Video said otherwise.

You guys can believe or say what you want among yourselves and you probably will have a few very very stupid people believe it as well but the majority are not as stupid as you obviously wish they were.

And I would venture a guess to say that the same majority does
not believe everything the ASSociation is spewing nor do they trust them. I wouldnt be surprised if the ASSociation starts to offer less pay to save Title 2 jobs. if anyone does not see the trend towards saving those jobs at all cost, they might need an eye opener. They want what other airline workers get but not what the company wants with respect to what other companies get in return.

 

[WeAAsles]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Association starts to offer less pay to save Title 2 jobs.

I cut the fat from your comment.

I doubt ultimately that either Union would send out for a vote any agreement that has less than at least the wage rates offered by the Company. They’re not as stupid as you think just because you don’t like them and know that would be rejected by the Membership in this economic climate.

Any way it’s cut even though the Company has areas where they no longer want to keep certain work in house and are looking for lower costs in those areas, they know they still need to have that work performed.

Regarding Facilities Maintenance particularly the Company is still going to have to pay the Airports to have certain essential work performed.

Personally I can only begin to imagine the nightmare of trying to go through MDAD to get things done like fixing doors, water fountains, lights, Etc.

Don’t know about where you work Metal but our Facilities guys are fantastic and MDAD sucks big time. Ground power units can be out for weeks around here waiting on them to fix it.

Edit: BTW I always love how you AMT’s zoom in on everyone else and the work we want to keep but when it comes to yourselves and your work being lost it’s a tragedy of epic proportions.