American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[we're screwed]

Two years. If your union never moves off the IAM medical or the pension, two non starters with the company , it will be 3 years or more.

If the masses want to vote on something let it be this... Let the membership decide if we want any part of that sorry pension, or want to continue the fight for IAM medical. Or we want to GIVE on that and focus on strengthening scope, ect. Are negotiations not a give and take? If this ASSociation is going to put its foot down and not budge on either of these two items, it's time to listen to it's members. Far past time.

 

[WeAAsles]

If the masses want to vote on something let it be this... Let the membership decide if we want any part of that sorry pension, or want to continue the fight for IAM medical. Or we want to GIVE on that and focus on strengthening scope, ect. Are negotiations not a give and take? If this ASSociation is going to put its foot down and not budge on either of these two items, it's time to listen to it's members. Far past time.

Some of you seem to be having a very hard time understanding this. “ERISA”

And the Company is not providing any options for strengthening Scope if we relent to giving up the LUS Medical plans. So it’s not as simple as just saying let’s screw the IAM guys so we can get what we want.

https://www.pbgc.gov/prac/multiemployer/withdrawal-liability

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ebsa/a...ies/resource-center/fact-sheets/what-is-erisa

 

[we're screwed]

Some of you seem to be having a very hard time understanding this. “ERISA”

And the Company is not providing any options for strengthening Scope if we relent to giving up the LUS Medical plans. So it’s not as simple as just saying let’s screw the IAM guys so we can get what we want.

https://www.pbgc.gov/prac/multiemployer/withdrawal-liability

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ebsa/a...ies/resource-center/fact-sheets/what-is-erisa

How in the holy f*** did you get screw the IAM guys outta that? I'm not saying screw one group or another. By the way, there is not supposed to be IAM guys, or TWU guys. Have we all not been forced in to this ASSociation? For the negotiators to tell the company to pound sand if the better medical or crappy pention is touched is ridiculous. Negotiate.

 

[MetalMover]

I wish you wouldn’t write so much sometimes cause it makes it difficult to respond to all of it.

How or why is it more difficult for an AMT to move to Facilities or Plant Maintenance and why would you want to anyway?

And no those assholes shouldn’t be eating the food on AMT day particularly if you’re boycotting. But assholes are assholes no matter where they grow from.

As far as taking any more of your work you heard what Tom Regan said about tow crews. It’s your work in our book. Just wish some of you would act more like you want it. (Some of you)

I see no reason after all the work we’ve given up throughout our career that we need now to give up any more. And you can’t be offended by any of the work you lost in the past if you’re not going to fight to keep at least what you have today.

And I’m not going to say on what or where but I think there’s still room for the two sides to move towards each other. I know in my mind where I would be ok with it in Fleet and hopefully you aren’t satisfied with what you see on the table for your group.

I am not completely satisfied with whats on the table for my group. But I see deja vu all over again. For many negotiations years past it was about saving OH jobs and we all know how that worked out. I see the TWU is using the same page from the same playbook but now it is with Title 2 jobs. I will not fall for those threats again. Protect everyone who is here now. But I will not vote to protect ANY group’s jobs at the expense of better pay and benefits. and jobs that will be lost anyway! And that includes mx jobs!

 

[MetalMover]

We know that. Sito is not giving it up.

Once again.....the minority union holding the majority hostage!
HAD ENOUGH YET?

 

[swamt]

i just listened to the M&R panel on the new video put out by the association. while dry it does explain a few things, and helps to clarify positions. what would have been nice if these videos were put out thru out the negotiation process not just when the association is threatened or pressured to supply information. we as a membership still deserve a score card of the comparisons between the two positions detailing what the differences are and what are the ramifications of each position.
there are a few things that do stand out:
in the beginning of the video its explained that they will take the position that the articles that have been T.A;'d are the ones actually agreed too. what have we been doing since the company published this? should we not have sub committees that are familiar with each article to proofread on a timely basis? after 4 years i would think there would be some type of familiarity.
for those in the conspiracy mode at the 27:27 mark of the M&R panel review the iam reps explains that there is an understanding on the amt position that any additional percent raises would be applied to all groups for fairness. and now that the company came out with the "southwest" proposal into the mix that has changed....

Can you elaborate a bit on this?

"for those in the conspiracy mode at the 27:27 mark of the M&R panel review the iam reps explains that there is an understanding on the amt position that any additional percent raises would be applied to all groups for fairness. and now that the company came out with the "southwest" proposal into the mix that has changed...."

Are you implying they are pulling the SWA wage offer? Or, is it that they will not apply the same % with other groups since the new SWA wages came up??

 

[swamt]

You're funny, AMTs have been screwed out of their sick pay since 2003. No other work group took the shaft as bad as AMTs. Not a peep from the union. Stores retains the 6th week of vacation all the way through, and no sick pay penalty either! Not a peep from the union! So much for flow through. Now, word is out that the AMTs had TA'd the 7th week of vacation not that long ago - to match UAL - so guess who started crying about it in negotiations? "If we don't get it. nobody gets it." The other title group negotiators - who had no problem with AMTs getting hosed all these years!

So here we are, the company matches AA AMTs up with SWA AMTs pay, and there is no equivalent for some of the others to match up to, all of a sudden it's not fair? Look for the International's go to move - screw the AMTs, and let the redistribution begin. Funny, how nothing changes.

If any fence sitters were looking for a reason to sign an AMP card, look no further than this sort of BS!

Like I mentioned on a earlier post. The association was forced to open up a bit. First was after the AMP drive and now again in more detail with a podcast due to the companies release of their documents. The association asks the membership to be patient and support the NC. Many of the union members no longer trust the association at face value since they straight out lied to us about a vote for representation. That was in writing signed by the union. There just is no more trust and faith in the association and negotiations. You can spin it which ever way you want but that's the truth. The association planted the weeds in the garden and they are trying to convince the membership that its roses in the flower pot. Even miracle grow won't help this far into negotiations.

I have to admit you have a valid point. The video is something, but i think someone mentioned it was amateurist. Where is the slick side by side comparison explaining each position. The company can squeeze one out and spin it, why cant we stop the spin and put the damn thing out already. Its not that complicated, or is it? The association is NOT HELPING THEMSELVES, in fact their response up to know is not inspiring. Are they that dense and uncaring? Or are they that secure in their position that they really dont care what the membership wants? HOW TO SAY IT ANY CLEARER IM NOT SURE BUT THE COMPANY IS KICKING YOUR ASS. AND HAVING YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND JUST MAKES IT THAT MUCH EASIER FOR THEM.

BINGO!!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!

The company has a professional approach to the employees that are represented by the association. The association in response was at a level that shows they can not live up to the companies level. The association needs to go one for one with professional negotiators and debates. Clearly not what I saw on the podcast. You know there is a problem when the association not only flat out lies to its members and signs the updates with generic titles.

If this is not enough to fire this asso. I don't know what is. You all have very valid points on removing this asso. as your representative. Pull the trigger guys, run the AMP cards again. You guys just keep getting the runaround, and you guys just keep letting it happen to you. Pull the dam trigger and get a class and craft union in there.

 

[WeAAsles]

How in the holy f*** did you get screw the IAM guys outta that? I'm not saying screw one group or another. By the way, there is not supposed to be IAM guys, or TWU guys. Have we all not been forced in to this ASSociation? For the negotiators to tell the company to pound sand if the better medical or crappy pention is touched is ridiculous. Negotiate.

Who told anyone to pound sand? You do know besides them wanting lower cost Medical the more important thing isn’t even the lower price but the ability to audit their Medical expenditures to make sure they aren’t lying to us if they say the cost as gone up and to have caps on that rise.

Unless maybe you’re fine with giving the Company Carte Blanche and they can raise it every year whatever they want and erode those wages everyone wants so badly?

 

[WeAAsles]

I am not completely satisfied with whats on the table for my group. But I see deja vu all over again. For many negotiations years past it was about saving OH jobs and we all know how that worked now. I see the TWU is using the same page from the same playbook but now it is with Title 2 jobs. I will not fall for those threats again. Protect everyone who is here now. But I will not vote to protect ANY group’s jobs at the expense of better pay and benefits. and jobs that will be lost anyway! And that includes mx jobs!

And I vote that we at least keep all the work we perform today at the very least and am willing to wait however long it takes till the Company comes down to that level.

They got the Work they wanted in the 2003 Concessionary train and 2011 Bankruptcy strong arm.

I’m not interested in selling them any of my work.

 

[swamt]

US flag displayed behind committee is not properly hung. Blue goes on left.

Blue field always on the left.

I really don't know what is going on anymore. They never really negotiated on jetnet. They posted their proposal and the current articles that have been agreed upon by both parties. Association is not budging on the IAMPF and IAM medical plan. The company is not changing its position on current scope proposals. The company stated there is room for improvement on scope. Unfortunately the association won't budge on the two items I mentioned to improve scope and other compensation such as vacation, overtime, field trips and medical expense caps. The association in writing (which has proved to be worthless) wants to put all members in the IAMPF in some manner. They also mentioned in negotiations that they want association members in the IAM medical plan. I'm not sure where the association now stands on these issues since information is vague and not credible anymore. The membership has lost faith and trust in negotiations and the association contrary to what the forum clown will post here.

Time to run a card drive...

I wish you wouldn’t write so much sometimes cause it makes it difficult to respond to all of it.

How or why is it more difficult for an AMT to move to Facilities or Plant Maintenance and why would you want to anyway?

And no those assholes shouldn’t be eating the food on AMT day particularly if you’re boycotting. But assholes are assholes no matter where they grow from.

As far as taking any more of your work you heard what Tom Regan said about tow crews. It’s your work in our book. Just wish some of you would act more like you want it. (Some of you)

I see no reason after all the work we’ve given up throughout our career that we need now to give up any more. And you can’t be offended by any of the work you lost in the past if you’re not going to fight to keep at least what you have today.

And I’m not going to say on what or where but I think there’s still room for the two sides to move towards each other. I know in my mind where I would be ok with it in Fleet and hopefully you aren’t satisfied with what you see on the table for your group.

And all of us here wish you would stop writing on here too. You are a mechanic hater, fleet luver, and asso. worshiper...

 

[dfw gen]

Can you elaborate a bit on this?

"for those in the conspiracy mode at the 27:27 mark of the M&R panel review the iam reps explains that there is an understanding on the amt position that any additional percent raises would be applied to all groups for fairness. and now that the company came out with the "southwest" proposal into the mix that has changed...."

Are you implying they are pulling the SWA wage offer? Or, is it that they will not apply the same % with other groups since the new SWA wages came up??

the twu has always had the philosophy of "flow thru items" items that are the same in each contract. i.e. medical, life insurance, sick time, vacation time etc. the way i understand the video is the iam has the same philosophy " a loaf of bread cost the same for every one". it would appear the percentage raises up to now has been a flow thru item if maintenance got 5% everyone else gets 5%. so when when southwest came out with their payscale and american use it, the 16% or what ever you have over us will not flow thru to everyone. this puts another wrinkle in any chance of a T.A. anytime soon

one change to the flow thru items sold to maintenance is the half day of sick pay, the one less week of vacation that stores gets, the dissolving of all the maintenance locals and the sale of their union halls is sold as we chose our poison in bankruptcy. personally my opinion is that it was a punishment for past card drives and to help keep maintenance divided. you can compare previous maintenance locals with comparable fleet locals and they are the same size supposedly the maintenance locals where not economically feasible. where that punishment went awry is that the wrong person one the presidency in local 591 (Gary Peterson) the twu's choice did not win.

 

[swamt]

If the masses want to vote on something let it be this... Let the membership decide if we want any part of that sorry pension, or want to continue the fight for IAM medical. Or we want to GIVE on that and focus on strengthening scope, ect. Are negotiations not a give and take? If this ASSociation is going to put its foot down and not budge on either of these two items, it's time to listen to it's members. Far past time.

Once again.....the minority union holding the majority hostage!
HAD ENOUGH YET?

Time for another card drive fellas!!!

 

[swamt]

dfw gen, you quoted my post but didn't respond, can you pls try again, thx.

 

[WeAAsles]

How in the holy f*** did you get screw the IAM guys outta that? I'm not saying screw one group or another. By the way, there is not supposed to be IAM guys, or TWU guys. Have we all not been forced in to this ASSociation? For the negotiators to tell the company to pound sand if the better medical or crappy pention is touched is ridiculous. Negotiate.

Back to this.

How I got screw the IAM guys was because all you mentioned was THEIR current Medical and THEIR current Pension. You didn’t even mention what the major problem actually is which is SCOPE SCOPE SCOPE SCOPE.

And how do we negotiate when the Company has stopped negotiating? The Company only talked about the SWA wages and adding another $3,000 to sell the better medical after talks in FLL were concluded. Otherwise go back and look at the dates they have on their last proposals some going all the way back to April 2017.

And I gave you all the information on the IAMNPF that you need. Have you looked at it yet? The IAM is absolutely fine with giving that up but the Company has to pay the Withdrawal Liability Fee and we want a 10% Contribution to our 401K moving forward. You don’t want a 10% Contribution?

BTW Retiree Medical. You know that UAL and SWA have a Retirees Medical program in their Contracts and AA Management is offering us jack chit squat nothing. You don’t want Retiree Medical?

Now go back to those videos and start focusing on all the other items.

 

[dfw gen]

So what's in it for him?

the iam has put themselves in a corner. when they got their contract as payment for the takeover they had a very secure feeling with the company and having the twu handcuffed and gagged in the association. when the iam leadership decided "it was not the right time" to protest or show any type of solidarity it showed the company where to drive the wedge. when the company came out and wanted out of the iam pension and the iam medical THEN IT BECAME TIME for solidarity. unfortunately after the hosing the twu side has received there would not be much or any support for the association.

so what in it for Sito?
if they can drag this out until a contract is imposed they can point at the nmb and the membership why they lost both.

so whats in it for Sito? hopefully a political excuse/solution to resolve a piss poor performance as a partner in the association. will they learn from this? no. reference the association's response to the companies offer, low quality videos and nonsense when the membership wants a clear explanation and side by side comparison of all the positions

how will it end up? one of two ways

they drag it out the company imposes a contract and the iam ran association points fingers at the nmb and the membership.

a deal is cut sacrificing something to save the iam pension, since they know the medical is done. can you guess who or what will be sacrificed again?