American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

Discussion in 'American Airlines' started by Buck, Mar 19, 2018.

  1. dfw gen

    dfw gen Veteran

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    #18001 dfw gen, May 19, 2019
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
    the twu has always had the philosophy of "flow thru items" items that are the same in each contract. i.e. medical, life insurance, sick time, vacation time etc. the way i understand the video is the iam has the same philosophy " a loaf of bread cost the same for every one". it would appear the percentage raises up to now has been a flow thru item if maintenance got 5% everyone else gets 5%. so when when southwest came out with their payscale and american use it, the 16% or what ever you have over us will not flow thru to everyone. this puts another wrinkle in any chance of a T.A. anytime soon

    one change to the flow thru items sold to maintenance is the half day of sick pay, the one less week of vacation that stores gets, the dissolving of all the maintenance locals and the sale of their union halls is sold as we chose our poison in bankruptcy. personally my opinion is that it was a punishment for past card drives and to help keep maintenance divided. you can compare previous maintenance locals with comparable fleet locals and they are the same size supposedly the maintenance locals where not economically feasible. where that punishment went awry is that the wrong person one the presidency in local 591 (Gary Peterson) the twu's choice did not win.
     
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  2. swamt

    swamt Veteran

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    Time for another card drive fellas!!!
     
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  3. swamt

    swamt Veteran

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    dfw gen, you quoted my post but didn't respond, can you pls try again, thx.
     
  4. WeAAsles

    WeAAsles Veteran

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    Back to this.

    How I got screw the IAM guys was because all you mentioned was THEIR current Medical and THEIR current Pension. You didn’t even mention what the major problem actually is which is SCOPE SCOPE SCOPE SCOPE.

    And how do we negotiate when the Company has stopped negotiating? The Company only talked about the SWA wages and adding another $3,000 to sell the better medical after talks in FLL were concluded. Otherwise go back and look at the dates they have on their last proposals some going all the way back to April 2017.

    And I gave you all the information on the IAMNPF that you need. Have you looked at it yet? The IAM is absolutely fine with giving that up but the Company has to pay the Withdrawal Liability Fee and we want a 10% Contribution to our 401K moving forward. You don’t want a 10% Contribution?

    BTW Retiree Medical. You know that UAL and SWA have a Retirees Medical program in their Contracts and AA Management is offering us jack chit squat nothing. You don’t want Retiree Medical?

    Now go back to those videos and start focusing on all the other items.
     
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  5. dfw gen

    dfw gen Veteran

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    the iam has put themselves in a corner. when they got their contract as payment for the takeover they had a very secure feeling with the company and having the twu handcuffed and gagged in the association. when the iam leadership decided "it was not the right time" to protest or show any type of solidarity it showed the company where to drive the wedge. when the company came out and wanted out of the iam pension and the iam medical THEN IT BECAME TIME for solidarity. unfortunately after the hosing the twu side has received there would not be much or any support for the association.

    so what in it for Sito?
    if they can drag this out until a contract is imposed they can point at the nmb and the membership why they lost both.

    so whats in it for Sito? hopefully a political excuse/solution to resolve a piss poor performance as a partner in the association. will they learn from this? no. reference the association's response to the companies offer, low quality videos and nonsense when the membership wants a clear explanation and side by side comparison of all the positions

    how will it end up? one of two ways

    they drag it out the company imposes a contract and the iam ran association points fingers at the nmb and the membership.

    a deal is cut sacrificing something to save the iam pension, since they know the medical is done. can you guess who or what will be sacrificed again?
     
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  6. dfw gen

    dfw gen Veteran

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    sorry about that, damn it was a good post. anyway

    the twu has always had a philosophy of flow thru items i.e medical,life insurance vacation, pay raise percentages etc. so if anyone got a 5% raise everyone got a 5% raise. "a loaf of bread cost the same for everyone". when the company came out matching or using the southwest agreement the 16% that southwest got would not translate to everyone. it kind of put a crimp in the associations strategy.

    the only deviation from the flow thru philosophy is in bankruptcy maintenance got half pay for sick days, one week less vacation then stores it was sold as we "picked our poison" in bankruptcy. the twu got their little pound of flesh by dissolving the maintenance local in to one and selling all the maintenance locals as not economical to rin. forget the fact that if you compare maintenance locals to fleet locals most where around the same size. the only problem with that little pound of flesh is that the wrong slate won the local 591 presidency (Gary Peterson).

    thats how you sue them to become them!
     
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  7. B737 driver

    B737 driver Veteran

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    Thank you, for your promotional information, I wish you guys luck, that IAM pension is a sinking ship, just like the Teamsters , which when we were, tried to get us to join their plan, we said no thanks, and never looked back from our 401ks.
     
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  8. dfw gen

    dfw gen Veteran

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    naw bernie went to jail because he stole from the 1% when you steal from the 99% you just change the laws and make it legal.
     
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  9. B737 driver

    B737 driver Veteran

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    The TWU American mechanics.
     
  10. dfw gen

    dfw gen Veteran

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    #18010 dfw gen, May 19, 2019
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
    again please reference my post on trust in the association and the no vote and the promise of "more information this weekend" the union works for the membership, its clear what the membership wants. we want a clear concise point by point comparison in our position and the companies position and the ramifications of each.
    i do remind you that i have in writing where we going to vote on the association, so please excuse the lack of trust in the association. their current response to the companies offer is woefully inadequate for what the membership wants and demands.
     
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  11. WeAAsles

    WeAAsles Veteran

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    You’re right that it did sound like that’s what was said at one point in the videos. In the end an idea like that won’t stand. Since the 2016 wage adjustment you’ve had both UAL and SWA now ratify agreements raising wages. Both Fleet groups at UAL and SWA had already ratified and aren’t up to bat again just yet.

    Actually though after what you said was eluded to when you go down to the Wages and Benefits section Tom Regan did go back to mentioning the 3% above Delta line for Fleet but that only standing if the Profit Sharing formula was adjusted. They’re also asking for a higher wage than 3% if the Company wants to maintain their current PS (POS) formula.

    And the “flow thru items” should be universal. Remember yours still are a higher cost than ours because you earn in wages and premiums far more than we do as it should be.
     
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  12. dfw gen

    dfw gen Veteran

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    #18012 dfw gen, May 19, 2019
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
    i do have to agree with you on this one. but dont underestimate the unseen connection to the iam pension plan. dont kid yourself there is a very strong moral commitment to the perceived success of the plan. at any cost.
     
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  13. WeAAsles

    WeAAsles Veteran

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    You keep posting that there will be more information coming out this weekend and I haven’t heard that but hope you’re right. I actually haven’t reached out to ask if more was coming?

    I don’t know if necessarily you’re going to get more information since those videos were pretty full already but maybe they’re putting that down in writing similar to what the Company did?

    In writing would be easier to reference rather than rewatching the videos 3 times (which I have so far) but also BobLas brought up a great point that people are ultimately going to be very disappointed when not all of what we’re asking for comes out to be voted on.

    But hopefully people are grown up enough to understand reality just a little bit?
     
  14. dfw gen

    dfw gen Veteran

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    in all fairness i did not watch the other videos ie. fleet stores mct etc. im not real concerned with those groups.again i maintain that the association represents to many groups and classifications to effectively represent all. reference the response up to now. it almost appears no one really has an overview of the whole picture. we have no clear concise plan. i have always found that if i use my opponents words in my counter argument it generally works. why are we not using the companies words and methods to counteract the message? are we that thick headed and secure in our position?
     
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  15. dfw gen

    dfw gen Veteran

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    cant speak for all but i understand reality. what may come for a vote might be different i get it the give and take. can you honestly say you are happy with the response so far? you yourself said you had to watch it three times. would it not be easier to have a clear concise copy to READ?
     
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