American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[dfw gen]

dfw gen, you quoted my post but didn't respond, can you pls try again, thx.

sorry about that, damn it was a good post. anyway

the twu has always had a philosophy of flow thru items i.e medical,life insurance vacation, pay raise percentages etc. so if anyone got a 5% raise everyone got a 5% raise. "a loaf of bread cost the same for everyone". when the company came out matching or using the southwest agreement the 16% that southwest got would not translate to everyone. it kind of put a crimp in the associations strategy.

the only deviation from the flow thru philosophy is in bankruptcy maintenance got half pay for sick days, one week less vacation then stores it was sold as we "picked our poison" in bankruptcy. the twu got their little pound of flesh by dissolving the maintenance local in to one and selling all the maintenance locals as not economical to rin. forget the fact that if you compare maintenance locals to fleet locals most where around the same size. the only problem with that little pound of flesh is that the wrong slate won the local 591 presidency (Gary Peterson).

thats how you sue them to become them!

 

[B737 driver]

Oh and BTW driver those Association videos are public so you can watch them as well since you have such a huge daily interest in what’s going on here at American Airlines.

“The truth shall set you free”

http://www.usaamerger.com/

Thank you, for your promotional information, I wish you guys luck, that IAM pension is a sinking ship, just like the Teamsters , which when we were, tried to get us to join their plan, we said no thanks, and never looked back from our 401ks.

 

[dfw gen]

I see what you are talking about, the money man for the Bernie Madoff pension fund., so sad.

naw bernie went to jail because he stole from the 1% when you steal from the 99% you just change the laws and make it legal.

 

[B737 driver]

the iam has put themselves in a corner. when they got their contract as payment for the takeover they had a very secure feeling with the company and having the twu handcuffed and gagged in the association. when the iam leadership decided "it was not the right time" to protest or show any type of solidarity it showed the company where to drive the wedge. when the company came out and wanted out of the iam pension and the iam medical THEN IT BECAME TIME for solidarity. unfortunately after the hosing the twu side has received there would not be much or any support for the association.

so what in it for Sito?
if they can drag this out until a contract is imposed they can point at the nmb and the membership why they lost both.

so whats in it for Sito? hopefully a political excuse/solution to resolve a piss poor performance as a partner in the association. will they learn from this? no. reference the association's response to the companies offer, low quality videos and nonsense when the membership wants a clear explanation and side by side comparison of all the positions

how will it end up? one of two ways

they drag it out the company imposes a contract and the iam ran association points fingers at the nmb and the membership.

a deal is cut sacrificing something to save the iam pension, since they know the medical is done. can you guess who or what will be sacrificed again?

The TWU American mechanics.

 

[dfw gen]

Hey Forum Clown AKA: “Bad Salesman” here you go. Watch the videos. You’re right. Information is so scarce, LMFAO.

http://www.usaamerger.com/

again please reference my post on trust in the association and the no vote and the promise of "more information this weekend" the union works for the membership, its clear what the membership wants. we want a clear concise point by point comparison in our position and the companies position and the ramifications of each.
i do remind you that i have in writing where we going to vote on the association, so please excuse the lack of trust in the association. their current response to the companies offer is woefully inadequate for what the membership wants and demands.

 

[WeAAsles]

the twu has always had the philosophy of "flow thru items" items that are the same in each contract. i.e. medical, life insurance, sick time, vacation time etc. the way i understand the video is the iam has the same philosophy " a loaf of bread cost the same for every one". it would appear the percentage raises up to now has been a flow thru item if maintenance got 5% everyone else gets 5%. so when when southwest came out with their payscale and american use it, the 16% or what ever you have over us will not flow thru to everyone. this puts another wrinkle in any chance of a T.A. anytime soon

You’re right that it did sound like that’s what was said at one point in the videos. In the end an idea like that won’t stand. Since the 2016 wage adjustment you’ve had both UAL and SWA now ratify agreements raising wages. Both Fleet groups at UAL and SWA had already ratified and aren’t up to bat again just yet.

Actually though after what you said was eluded to when you go down to the Wages and Benefits section Tom Regan did go back to mentioning the 3% above Delta line for Fleet but that only standing if the Profit Sharing formula was adjusted. They’re also asking for a higher wage than 3% if the Company wants to maintain their current PS (POS) formula.

And the “flow thru items” should be universal. Remember yours still are a higher cost than ours because you earn in wages and premiums far more than we do as it should be.

 

[dfw gen]

I see you’re at it again “Bad Salesman” Sito Pantoja is no longer on the Board of Trustees. And if you watched the last video (Of course you did) you would know that the IAM has no problem with the Company leaving the IAMNPF as long as they pay the “Withdrawal Liability Fee” which is a responsibility by Law they can’t step away from.

Anyway here’s that current Board of Trustees which we can be 100% sure you’ll ignore anyway cause it goes against your agenda.

https://www.iamnpf.org/about-us/board-trustees

View attachment 14407

i do have to agree with you on this one. but dont underestimate the unseen connection to the iam pension plan. dont kid yourself there is a very strong moral commitment to the perceived success of the plan. at any cost.

 

[WeAAsles]

again please reference my post on trust in the association and the no vote and the promise of "more information this weekend" the union works for the membership, its clear what the membership wants. we want a clear concise point by point comparison in our position and the companies position and the ramifications of each.

You keep posting that there will be more information coming out this weekend and I haven’t heard that but hope you’re right. I actually haven’t reached out to ask if more was coming?

I don’t know if necessarily you’re going to get more information since those videos were pretty full already but maybe they’re putting that down in writing similar to what the Company did?

In writing would be easier to reference rather than rewatching the videos 3 times (which I have so far) but also BobLas brought up a great point that people are ultimately going to be very disappointed when not all of what we’re asking for comes out to be voted on.

But hopefully people are grown up enough to understand reality just a little bit?

 

[dfw gen]

You’re right that it did sound like that’s what was said at one point in the videos. In the end an idea like that won’t stand. Since the 2016 wage adjustment you’ve had both UAL and SWA now ratify agreements raising wages. Both Fleet groups at UAL and SWA had already ratified and aren’t up to bat again just yet.

Actually though after what you said was eluded to when you go down to the Wages and Benefits section Tom Regan did go back to mentioning the 3% above Delta line for Fleet but that only standing if the Profit Sharing formula was adjusted. They’re also asking for a higher wage than 3% if the Company wants to maintain their current PS (POS) formula.

And the “flow thru items” should be universal. Remember yours still are a higher cost than ours because you earn in wages and premiums far more than we do as it should be.

in all fairness i did not watch the other videos ie. fleet stores mct etc. im not real concerned with those groups.again i maintain that the association represents to many groups and classifications to effectively represent all. reference the response up to now. it almost appears no one really has an overview of the whole picture. we have no clear concise plan. i have always found that if i use my opponents words in my counter argument it generally works. why are we not using the companies words and methods to counteract the message? are we that thick headed and secure in our position?

 

[dfw gen]

You keep posting that there will be more information coming out this weekend and I haven’t heard that but hope you’re right. I actually haven’t reached out to ask if more was coming?

I don’t know if necessarily you’re going to get more information since those videos were pretty full already but maybe they’re putting that down in writing similar to what the Company did?

In writing would be easier to reference rather than rewatching the videos 3 times (which I have so far) but also BobLas brought up a great point that people are ultimately going to be very disappointed when not all of what we’re asking for comes out to be voted on.

But hopefully people are grown up enough to understand reality just a little bit?

cant speak for all but i understand reality. what may come for a vote might be different i get it the give and take. can you honestly say you are happy with the response so far? you yourself said you had to watch it three times. would it not be easier to have a clear concise copy to READ?

 

[WeAAsles]

i do have to agree with you on this one. but dont underestimate the unseen connection to the iam pension plan. dont kid yourself their is a very strong moral commitment to the perceived success of the plan. at any cost.

I do get what your saying and if the fund had not placed itself in the red zone maybe we would be sitting in the waiting room as part of the broader fight for the IAM guys to keep it? Our TWU Negotiators have not wanted to be included in it for quite a while back despite what the written Association agreement says. They WERE listening to the Membership who was saying no thank you.

Because of the latest news which the IAM Reps are still gathering more of an understanding to what that means there likely are far more IAM Members who would prefer to get out of it than a few months ago they would have been saying.

But again to get out the Company has to pay that fee by ERISA Law. Those Negotiations are going to be interesting to watch and eventually see what comes out of that?

We could see current IAM Members locked in to the fund and the Company not agreeing to any new participants being entertained thus drawing down over time their participation in it?

 

[dfw gen]

I do get what your saying and if the fund had not placed itself in the red zone maybe we would be sitting in the waiting room as part of the broader fight for the IAM guys to keep it? Our TWU Negotiators have not wanted to be included in it for quite a while back despite what the written Association agreement says. They WERE listening to the Membership who was saying no thank you.

Because of the latest news which the IAM Reps are still gathering more of an understanding to what that means there likely are far more IAM Members who would prefer to get out of it than a few months ago they would have been saying.

But again to get out the Company has to pay that fee by ERISA Law. Those Negotiations are going to be interesting to watch and eventually see what comes out of that?

We could see current IAM Members locked in to the fund and the Company not agreeing to any new participants being entertained thus drawing down over time their participation in it?

im a little confused we have an agreement that we intend on getting everyone into the plan (in writing). but we are not going to honor that now we are not going into the plan? now they are listening to the membership. is it selective hearing or selective adherence to agreements. the membership wants a clear concise plan of whats being asked and what is the differences and ramifications in writing to compare.

just out of curiosity since the association is listening (selectively) im sure the membership wants out of the association....can we disregard that agreement too?

Our TWU Negotiators have not wanted to be included in it for quite a while back despite what the written Association agreement says. They WERE listening to the Membership who was saying no thank you.

 

[WeAAsles]

in all fairness i did not watch the other videos ie. fleet stores mct etc. im not real concerned with those groups.again i maintain that the association represents to many groups and classifications to effectively represent all. reference the response up to now. it almost appears no one really has an overview of the whole picture. we have no clear concise plan. i have always found that if i use my opponents words in my counter argument it generally works. why are we not using the companies words and methods to counteract the message? are we that thick headed and secure in our position?

I’ll admit that I only watched the AMT portion once as I do find some of it complicated and haven’t worked to verse myself more because it doesn’t directly affect me. 700UW has tried to educate me more but your Scope involves a lot of mathematics.

Actually the smaller groups were easy to understand and it seems like at least 2 of them are pretty much done. (Not Facilities and Automotive)

cant speak for all but i understand reality. what may come for a vote might be different i get it the give and take. can you honestly say you are happy with the response so far? you yourself said you had to watch it three times. would it not be easier to have a clear concise copy to READ?

Ok but you know the cars drivers are going to be here to blast them when they don’t get everything they’re going for which of course is inevitable. I just hope their agenda doesn’t derail the rationalities of your voting process?

I have to agree with what Tom Regan said that Negotiations shouldn’t be out here on Social Media and in Breakrooms but here it is now.

I don’t like to be a pest actually and have given the guys my opinion privately on the videos. I watched the Fleet and Wage and Benefits section 3 times because I like to immerse myself in what was said so when people ask me questions I can be credible and sure that was said.

I don’t think it’s a secret here on Forums that I already knew what the Associations current positions were.

 

[1AA]

the iam has put themselves in a corner. when they got their contract as payment for the takeover they had a very secure feeling with the company and having the twu handcuffed and gagged in the association. when the iam leadership decided "it was not the right time" to protest or show any type of solidarity it showed the company where to drive the wedge. when the company came out and wanted out of the iam pension and the iam medical THEN IT BECAME TIME for solidarity. unfortunately after the hosing the twu side has received there would not be much or any support for the association.

so what in it for Sito?
if they can drag this out until a contract is imposed they can point at the nmb and the membership why they lost both.

so whats in it for Sito? hopefully a political excuse/solution to resolve a piss poor performance as a partner in the association. will they learn from this? no. reference the association's response to the companies offer, low quality videos and nonsense when the membership wants a clear explanation and side by side comparison of all the positions

how will it end up? one of two ways

they drag it out the company imposes a contract and the iam ran association points fingers at the nmb and the membership.

a deal is cut sacrificing something to save the iam pension, since they know the medical is done. can you guess who or what will be sacrificed again?

They already pointed the finger at the NMB for a No Representational Vote on the Association. They are 1 for 1. 2 for 2 is going for greatness like the boarding video says.

 

[dfw gen]

see how easy it is to use your words? i didnt even put much thought into the response. if i sat and thought about it for a while i can come up with an even more convincing argument. the point is
WE ARE GETTING OUR ASSES KICKED AND THE RESPONSE FROM THE ASS IS WOEFULLY INADEQUATE.