American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

BTW just a pure complete guess on my part but if the Company got all the Scope changes they’re asking for in every group my again “GUESS” is a shrinkage of around 4000 to 5000 job positions?

31,000 - 4,000 = 27,000.

Again this is just a guess. I’d LOVE to hear what the Company thinks as far as Association numbers in the next 4 to 5 years if we accepted their Scope asks?

 

[V.O. Reason]

No no catering here but have worked catering in the past, but frankly I never felt catering should be fleet work. Just my opinion
I think instead of focusing on keeping those positions I think it would be better to try and gain a few more cities than under the current IAM scope but nothing like the insane 20 the Ass wants.
5 would be reasonable, and focus on our core work which is handling ground work and even try and gain charter work with not only us but from other carriers.
The loss in numbers seems high to me but anytime you merge two companies together your always going to have job attrition due to overlaps in personnel .
However over the past year I’ve been seeing hiring still going on in fleet so I guess if we got the deal you don’t want that’s just going to dry up.
I rather doubt it

 

[Tim Nelson]

Oh that’s what happened then. Ok. Hey Tim can you tell me what my title is with the Union and how they’re paying me?

I mean I really sometimes wish I was what you think I am. Maybe I wouldn’t have to get in the back belly 5 days a week and sweat myself out to exhaustion sometimes.

Anyway listen seriously. Do you mind if I take off now? This place is boring as hell I know but you guys are really ridiculously obsessed with me and as flattering as it is it’s also kind of out there man.

Take care of yourself ok.

View attachment 14494

you always take off after your fairy tales are proved wrong. I advised you to quit lying and that your kind will cause a restraining order and then a fine, but you kept saying that peterson knew what he was doing. As soon as you were found out, you bailed out on this board. Now you are getting spanked on here for destroying our talks so you claim you are bored. Leave then and if the unions arent paying you then that may mean that the company is.

 

[Tim Nelson]

BTW just a pure complete guess on my part but if the Company got all the Scope changes they’re asking for in every group my again “GUESS” is a shrinkage of around 4000 to 5000 job positions?

31,000 - 4,000 = 27,000.

Again this is just a guess. I’d LOVE to hear what the Company thinks as far as Association numbers in the next 4 to 5 years if we accepted their Scope asks?

maybe for mx but fleet numbers will expand by 2,000 with the company offer.
Not a guess, just looking at the math.

 

[WeAAsles]

No no catering here but have worked catering in the past, but frankly I never felt catering should be fleet work. Just my opinion
I think instead of focusing on keeping those positions I think it would be better to try and gain a few more cities than under the current IAM scope but nothing like the insane 20 the Ass wants.
5 would be reasonable, and focus on our core work which is handling ground work and even try and gain charter work with not only us but from other carriers.
The loss in numbers seems high to me but anytime you merge two companies together your always going to have job attrition due to overlaps in personnel .
However over the past year I’ve been seeing hiring still going on in fleet so I guess if we got the deal you don’t want that’s just going to dry up.
I rather doubt it

Actually I work in a city that would likely not be effected by any Scope changes. We don’t have Catering here or Deicing. And if they took some off the top through the buyout I might even move up some? Not crazy about the Crew Chief language the Company wants though. Philosophically in the TWU we don’t take well to listening to Management.

As far as doing any Horse trading for things I don’t know why people are missing this. The Company has shown no indication of coming off what they want. They’ve stated what they’re offering and what they want and that’s been it since.

But why is asking for more Stations insane? Why is asking for anything insane? I think it’s insane the amount of money these Airlines are making. BTW the Agents have about 20 more cities than us. Why shouldn’t we be in the same cities they’re in? (Stop listening to Tim)

And the Company is hiring for two reasons. They have more planes and with that comes more work and they also need to get people in and trained before they let more costly employees go. That only makes normal sense.

And I can tell you that DFW absolutely wouldn’t tell you they have enough staff. They’re drowning in work over there and the operation is crumbling.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Actually I work in a city that would likely not be effected by any Scope changes. We don’t have Catering here or Deicing. And if they took some off the top through the buyout I might even move up some? Not crazy about the Crew Chief language the Company wants though. Philosophically in the TWU we don’t take well to listening to Management.

As far as doing any Horse trading for things I don’t know why people are missing this. The Company has shown no indication of coming off what they want. They’ve stated what they’re offering and what they want and that’s been it since.

But why is asking for more Stations insane? Why is asking for anything insane? I think it’s insane the amount of money these Airlines are making. BTW the Agents have about 20 more cities than us. Why shouldn’t we be in the same cities they’re in? (Stop listening to Tim)

And the Company is hiring for two reasons. They have more planes and with that comes more work and they also need to get people in and trained before they let more costly employees go. That only makes normal sense.

And I can tell you that DFW absolutely wouldn’t tell you they have enough staff. They’re drowning in work over there and the operation is crumbling.

asking for 20 more stations isnt insane but holding firm and stopping progress is insane when there is no way the company will hand over 60 2 total stations.
There is little doubt that we can perhaps get iah and rsw since they are large stations but nothing will happen weez until the rhetoric stops and the union moves.
Whats the alternative? Just insisting on 20 additional stations and calling the company the bad guy? How is that working out? Is there a magic wand that you will waive for the company to grow a heart?

 

[Mr Eagle]

Just dont bring it out. Your opinion is just as valid as mine but we will just disagree whether it will pass or not.

PHX MX is a NO VOTE.

 

[robbedagain]

If the company's proposal were to go in effect the general consensus at dca is that everyone from 10 yrs or less would be gone. Everyone else wld be stuck where we are at. Is that similar to other cities?

 

[wings396]

I will say it again, if the company wants to outsource catering, give us cargo in those stations. The LAA side keeps cargo and most of the deicing work, and LUS loses catering period. Can't believe that everyone can't clearly see the issue with that.

 

[V.O. Reason]

I will say it again, if the company wants to outsource catering, give us cargo in those stations. The LAA side keeps cargo and most of the deicing work, and LUS loses catering period. Can't believe that everyone can't clearly see the issue with that.

Yes, cargo is a revenue source where as catering is not.
Seems reasonable to me

 

[V.O. Reason]

If the company's proposal were to go in effect the general consensus at dca is that everyone from 10 yrs or less would be gone. Everyone else wld be stuck where we are at. Is that similar to other cities?

I’ve heard this argument for years, omg we can never move or move up. BS The airline is a huge moving part there will always be opportunities for all, maybe not what everyone wants but for most.
In my time with the company I’ve moved 3 times and not one time was I forced to do so. It was always my choice and I moved where I wanted

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

i think in an almost completely different perspective. I believe working people realize they need unions just as much today as yesterday, but rather many unions have not adapted to a changing culture.
True, technology has exposed union corruption on social media and online like never before, many unions still cant figure out that membership participation is the lifeblood and that technology is your friend. Electronic voting, virtual union meetings, etc.

Are you serious?

If working people realize they need UNIONs as much today as yesterday then why are UNION memberships on a steady decline?

How can you say with a straight face that people realize they need UNIONs as much today as yesterday when even the people that already have them express discontent?

I find most people are, in fact, very anti UNION. At least where I live.

Most people here support Right to Work. The philosophy being if a UNION is effective people will support it. UNIONs here cannot simply collect money from the workers as a condition of employment (outside of the RLA that is). I happen to agree with that philosophy. After all I put my application in at American Airlines not the TWU.

That being said American Airlines provides good paying jobs and good benefits to employees with no or minimal educational requirements. I would say that reflects TWU effectiveness. That being said pay and benefits in the airline industry (not just American Airlines) has been in decline for a long time. Employees have lost a lot of buying power. I attribute this to the UNIONs at the legacy airlines supporting high headcount over maintaining pay and benefits. They basically settled for less for those they represent in exchange for more members to draw dues from. I don't see how any person that takes pride in their occupation would find that acceptable. That in my opinion was the beginning of the end for UNIONs. That is when they lost their way, when the membership succumbed to maintaining high headcount over compensation as a result of UNION fear campaigns.

Adapting to the culture by embracing technology is not going to fix a UNION accepting less for the people they represent to maximize dues. Only the memberships refusal to succumb to propaganda and fear tactics will do that. Frankly, I don't see that happening any time soon. That is why I am so disenfranchised with UNIONs. I agree with the philosophy of a UNION but not the modern implementation.

I think many people feel as I do and that is why you see so many people on this forum so unhappy with the Association.

 

[V.O. Reason]

Are you serious?

If working people realize they need UNIONs as much today as yesterday then why are UNION memberships on a steady decline?

How can you say with a straight face that people realize they need UNIONs as much today as yesterday when even the people that already have them express discontent?

I find most people are, in fact, very anti UNION. At least where I live.

Most people here support Right to Work. The philosophy being if a UNION is effective people will support it. UNIONs here cannot simply collect money from the workers as a condition of employment (outside of the RLA that is). I happen to agree with that philosophy. After all I put my application in at American Airlines not the TWU.

That being said American Airlines provides good paying jobs and good benefits to employees with no or minimal educational requirements. I would say that reflects TWU effectiveness. That being said pay and benefits in the airline industry (not just American Airlines) has been in decline for a long time. Employees have lost a lot of buying power. I attribute this to the UNIONs at the legacy airlines supporting high headcount over maintaining pay and benefits. They basically settled for less for those they represent in exchange for more members to draw dues from. I don't see how any person that takes pride in their occupation would find that acceptable. That in my opinion was the beginning of the end for UNIONs. That is when they lost their way, when the membership succumbed to maintaining high headcount over compensation as a result of UNION fear campaigns.

Adapting to the culture by embracing technology is not going to fix a UNION accepting less for the people they represent to maximize dues. Only the memberships refusal to succumb to propaganda and fear tactics will do that. Frankly, I don't see that happening any time soon. That is why I am so disenfranchised with UNIONs. I agree with the philosophy of a UNION but not the modern implementation.

I think many people feel as I do and that is why you see so many people on this forum so unhappy with the Association.

Perhaps one of the most well written responses I’ve seen on this forum, and we are still seeing the headcount issue take precedence in this negotiation from the association

 

[iluvaa]

Are you serious?

If working people realize they need UNIONs as much today as yesterday then why are UNION memberships on a steady decline?

How can you say with a straight face that people realize they need UNIONs as much today as yesterday when even the people that already have them express discontent?

I find most people are, in fact, very anti UNION. At least where I live.

Most people here support Right to Work. The philosophy being if a UNION is effective people will support it. UNIONs here cannot simply collect money from the workers as a condition of employment (outside of the RLA that is). I happen to agree with that philosophy. After all I put my application in at American Airlines not the TWU.

That being said American Airlines provides good paying jobs and good benefits to employees with no or minimal educational requirements. I would say that reflects TWU effectiveness. That being said pay and benefits in the airline industry (not just American Airlines) has been in decline for a long time. Employees have lost a lot of buying power. I attribute this to the UNIONs at the legacy airlines supporting high headcount over maintaining pay and benefits. They basically settled for less for those they represent in exchange for more members to draw dues from. I don't see how any person that takes pride in their occupation would find that acceptable. That in my opinion was the beginning of the end for UNIONs. That is when they lost their way, when the membership succumbed to maintaining high headcount over compensation as a result of UNION fear campaigns.

Adapting to the culture by embracing technology is not going to fix a UNION accepting less for the people they represent to maximize dues. Only the memberships refusal to succumb to propaganda and fear tactics will do that. Frankly, I don't see that happening any time soon. That is why I am so disenfranchised with UNIONs. I agree with the philosophy of a UNION but not the modern implementation.

I think many people feel as I do and that is why you see so many people on this forum so unhappy with the Association.

This association proves unions don’t give one **** about the people they represent only there own bottom line

 

[Tim Nelson]

If the company's proposal were to go in effect the general consensus at dca is that everyone from 10 yrs or less would be gone. Everyone else wld be stuck where we are at. Is that similar to other cities?

That is the general consensus although that is wrong. Fleet service is very dumb and is in panic mode over the company protections, which are incredible. The station and status protection protects everyone in DCA. That said, I think it may be better to scrap the protections and add them to wages and benefits since most fleet service don't know how to read and it just causes confusion. Status protection doesn't help me as I have tons of seniority but the junior people don't know how to read and don't want the protections, so why bother with them? Scrap the protections because many fleet service don't understand protections, including you, don't know how to read. Just forget about the protections and put those millions into us high seniority pockets. More vacation, more wage, we want it all. If the junior people don't want protections, give the extra millions to us!