American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

Discussion in 'American Airlines' started by Buck, Mar 19, 2018.

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  1. Buck

    Buck Veteran
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    Not to force a vote, ( I agree with you ) but to take control over the rogue TWU International President that overstepped his position in the Robert Isom move. I do not believe that Samuelson realized that Aircraft Mechanics basically cannot strike.
     
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  2. Tim Nelson

    Tim Nelson Veteran

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    Amfa has never been nor can ever become a strawman. You and NYer dont understand the text, it appears.
    A strawman was used by non union people. Previous nmb rules didnt allow a card that said "no union".
    The only thing that will change is that there wont be a need for a strawman for non union peeps anymore.
    This change will happen but it doesnt change anything with amfa campaigns or the ALM current raid against the iam flight attendants.
     
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  3. Tim Nelson

    Tim Nelson Veteran

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    Actually, the only strawman that was successful, was a group that wanted to be alpa and were currently non union. Alpa didnt organize them so they made a strawman, to trigger a vote, and they voted in alpa.
     
  4. swamt

    swamt Veteran

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    Point I made. Again, the mechanics could care less about this SM crap.
    I turned sarcastic since some people just do not get it the first, second, third or fourth time again and again.
    You fleet folks just don't get it. And probably never will.
     
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  5. Tim Nelson

    Tim Nelson Veteran

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    Most dont, but the mx have their own set of problems and dont get it either, at least the ones at American who have no understanding that the Association is awful for them.
    Not sure why mx dont dump the assoc for amfa or amp other than ignorance.
    I also think Fleet should separate from mx since mx is limiting our progress now. MX has to compete globally with mechanics making $3 in third world countries. It pretty much wiped out your profession here as your numbers have shrunk massively.
     
  6. NYer

    NYer Veteran

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    Copy.

    But your tirade answered the question, even if indirectly.

    I'll also make note of not being able to have a conversation in a forum designed for conversation.

    Obviously, you have an interest for AA mechanics to go the AMFA route and I'm not discouraging that, if it's what they want.

    Wow. That's a lot.
     
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  7. NYer

    NYer Veteran

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    He has staff to advise him.

    I believe he was misinformed or mislead to how any action could be interpreted by the NMB. Postings submitted in the court filings explicitly call for voluntary actions to be avoided then referenced that as to not being illegal.

    Seems their theory wasn't vetted through the lawyers.
     
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  8. NYer

    NYer Veteran

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    Incorrect, Tim. Read the actual rules in making changes in union and the decertification process. Any change in the certification from one union to another includes the need to certify a straw man (which could be another union) in the event the decertification was to lead to new representation. It was done simultaneously. With the proposed changes, the decertification and certification of a replacement would be done separately unless they get enough write in votes.
     
  9. NYer

    NYer Veteran

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    Here is partial testimony from ALPA President Joe Depete on the proposed rule change (full testimony attached)

    "It would also freeze decertifying employees out of any union representation and the protections of a collective bargaining agreement for two full years, even if the employees merely want a change from their current representative. This is a marked change from current practice, and this proposed organizational bar contradicts the contention that this initiative is merely designed to restore balance to the union election process under the RLA."
     

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  10. Tim Nelson

    Tim Nelson Veteran

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    That's true, decertifying employees would have to wait 2 years. But I was involved in this discussion and Mary Johnson explained that it truly has nothing to do with going non union if a rival union petitioned. Doesn't even make sense. Because the choices will be "Amfa", "Ass" and "No union". This change is only in the context of a strawman. And they are changing the bar to 2 years, from the current 1 year decertification bar.

    Not sure what you are saying unless you are saying that if the majority of employees vote for AMFA, that AMFA wouldn't win and that everyone would go non union? Again, doesn't make sense nor did I read any of that in the proposed document.
     
  11. NYer

    NYer Veteran

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    In a vote to decertify and bring in a another option, that option IS the straw man. It doesn't matter if it's a John Doe or another union like AMFA, they'd both be considered a straw man.

    Read the testimony attached above.
     
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  12. Tim Nelson

    Tim Nelson Veteran

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    my hunch is that he listens to peterson, whose grand plan was a hot summer. Peterson is slick enuf that he was the background guy pulling the strings, so only alex and samuelson got pegged to sign the letter.
     
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  13. Tim Nelson

    Tim Nelson Veteran

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    You may be right nyer but the text doesnt support that view. As far as alpa, his reference to alita was his perspective and context. Using a strawman (union or not) to trigger an election for a write in. I dont believe he was referring to the normal mano mano elections. We will find out and i hope your wrong.
    I do believe this change is coming in shortly. I contacted the nmb about our alm campaign against the iam flight attendants (my concern was also your concern) and it assured me that nothing changed regarding raids.
     
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  14. swamt

    swamt Veteran

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    You two just keep going as you are. You guys really have no clue. Although Tim has more than NYer.
     
  15. ThirdSeatHero

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    Good evening all,

    Just been reading the back and forth here on the NMB " straw man " rule, and there seems to be alot of misunderstanding/bad info going around.

    First, the "straw man" only comes into play currently, when a represented group wishes to decertify their current representative, and go non-union/unrepresented.

    Here is an example where a small group of Dispatchers used the "straw man" and dumped the teamsters at Allegiant.

    https://www.dallasnews.com/business...-dispatchers-vote-out-teamsters-on-a-7-7-vote

    Second, the proposed rule change, even if adopted, does NOT change the way one union may be replaced (decertified) by another union

    https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/01/31/2019-00406/decertification-of-representatives

    From the link above - (emphasis mine)


    Clearly, this rule is for those groups seeking to decertify only, not for those seeking to change representatives.


    Don't be misled into believing this rule will make a decertification of your current representative(s) any more difficult.
     
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