American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[dfw gen]

out of character?

how long as lus gotten more holidays at a higher rate of pay, while also having a cheaper insurance than laa?

since their 2014 stand-alone? that's 5+ years of being out of character.

prior to their 2014 stand-alone, i believe the company saw the unfairness and raised non-hub lus wages, up to laa wages. now, that's out of character.

i believe the company will tell the pilots that they are the true team 'partners' and everyone else can lump it.

having DL's profit sharing parameters for 14,000-16,000 team members isn't going to harm the company. the company keeps telling us that CapEx will be halved by next year...so, a few billion more in cash laying around every year. just seems as though no one else will get their hands on that - save the pilots, F/As and shareholders.

Most likely scenario as we descend further into the america worst business plan...

 

[dfw gen]

I'm surprised how little attention people put into their surroundings.

You first comment, about LUS having the holidays and medical. They've had that many years before the merger. It's a completely different agreement they've made during their own standalone negotiations.

Second, they weren't "given" their raises. They agreed to those raises, some job protection and the elimination of the "Ready Reserve," since their contract was amendable during and after the AMR BK. They negotiated those wages in order to close out their standalone talks and start the JCBA. The connotation by many seems to be they were given a raise outside negotiations like we all did in 2016. That wasn't the case.

Sorry not buying it their stand alone negotiations and the improvements were a direct payoff for support of the take over. Nothing more nothing less. The raise was for cross utilization. That will enable the company to run two maintenance programs forever and drag out negotiations as long as possible. The airline is functioning well in their eyes or as long as they make money. Reference how long they ran two pilots programs.No more and no less. I will admit regardless of what anyone says or claims the unions had no choice but to take the money. If they didnt they would of got roasted.

 

[dfw gen]

The medical is an example of a flow through, only the IAM left to join.

The 401K will probably end up as another flow through, at least the Company will try.

If they offered the pilots the PS plan, it's likely we'd get it too as would the other groups.

again i would like to think so, but i doubt it. it would be interesting if the pilots and flight attendants arrived at an agreement before we do again. what then watson?

 

[robbedagain]

Actu

Another example of why there should be one mechanics union, we will have guys voting on my contract that are concerned with catering and deicing.......unskilled workers holding down skilled workers.

Sounds harsh, but it's accurate.

Actually not harsh. I definitely agree mechanics should have their own union

 

[V.O. Reason]

again i would like to think so, but i doubt it. it would be interesting if the pilots and flight attendants arrived at an agreement before we do again. what then watson?

I would consider this very likely considering how this has gone so far.
Wonder how many will care about headcount then when we have gone close to 7 years without a raise. It’s already been 3 plus

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

No.

WHOA.
Then I owe you a genuine, sincere apology, Seriously !!!

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

unskilled workers holding down skilled workers.

Sounds harsh, but it's accurate.

Well maybe not skilled in aircraft maintenance but I would not say there are no skilled workers in Fleet Service.

I happened to work with a carpenter, a master welder, a painter... all those are skilled tradesmen.

I myself had a background in electrical BEFORE I worked for American Airlines.

Plus there were 4 people I can think of off the top of my head that had their A&P license in my shop.

That being said I don't think all workers in Fleet are unskilled, though it would be accurate to say they do not leverage those skills in their current occupation. I would also disagree they are keeping you down. Though I would not disagree if you had said the UNION is leveraging unskilled positions to the detriment of skilled labor.

I do support your goal of a mechanics only UNION if that is what you want.

 

[NYer]

Sorry not buying it their stand alone negotiations and the improvements were a direct payoff for support of the take over. Nothing more nothing less. The raise was for cross utilization. That will enable the company to run two maintenance programs forever and drag out negotiations as long as possible. The airline is functioning well in their eyes or as long as they make money. Reference how long they ran two pilots programs.No more and no less. I will admit regardless of what anyone says or claims the unions had no choice but to take the money. If they didnt they would of got roasted.

Their standalone negotiations ran concurrent with the BK. After the merger they agreed to a standalone contract (2013-2014)

The Wage Adjustment was in 2016.

Without the Wage Adjustment the Association would have been roasted and we would probably have a JCBA by now.

The East LUS pilots and West LIS pilots were in Federal Court trying to deal with their issues, wasn't really anything the Company could do at that point.

 

[NYer]

again i would like to think so, but i doubt it. it would be interesting if the pilots and flight attendants arrived at an agreement before we do again. what then watson?

If the Association continues with their line in the sand tactics, the NMB could out then on ice until the legal stuff tightens the noose.

A deal with the APA and APFA before then, would certainly just throw more dirt into the gravesite.

 

[dfw gen]

Their standalone negotiations ran concurrent with the BK. After the merger they agreed to a standalone contract (2013-2014)

The Wage Adjustment was in 2016.

Without the Wage Adjustment the Association would have been roasted and we would probably have a JCBA by now.

The East LUS pilots and West LIS pilots were in Federal Court trying to deal with their issues, wasn't really anything the Company could do at that point.

You sure do spend a lot of time defending the company and the association.

 

[NYer]

You sure do spend a lot of time defending the company and the association.

Facts are facts.

 

[bigjets]

Well maybe not skilled in aircraft maintenance but I would not say there are no skilled workers in Fleet Service.

I happened to work with a carpenter, a master welder, a painter... all those are skilled tradesmen.

I myself had a background in electrical BEFORE I worked for American Airlines.

Plus there were 4 people I can think of off the top of my head that had their A&P license in my shop.

That being said I don't think all workers in Fleet are unskilled, though it would be accurate to say they do not leverage those skills in their current occupation. I would also disagree they are keeping you down. Though I would not disagree if you had said the UNION is leveraging unskilled positions to the detriment of skilled labor.

I do support your goal of a mechanics only UNION if that is what you want.

Of course there are a lot of skilled rampers there’s one here in Chicago that has his ATP and ferry’s aircraft all over the country, but at AA which is what we are talking about, he is a ramper, and at the local airport he’s the pilot in command. He’s a dad and a pretty good tango dancer, but let’s stick to what we do at AA not what we do outside of AA.

 

[1986Mekanic]

You sure do spend a lot of time defending the company and the association.

Not to be a smartass gen, maybe your being rhetorical in this post. But, I have to ask, your just now reaching this conclusion?

 

[dfw gen]

Not to be a smartass gen, maybe your being rhetorical in this post. But, I have to ask, your just now reaching this conclusion?

I try to look at things objectively.....

 

[cltrat]

I try to look at things objectively.....

I think you do a pretty good job of it