American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[dfw gen]

that's why i asked about full and partial retro. more fleet than AMTs, but the AMT raise is substantial (thanks to southwest and aa stalling).

the fact that they are meeting next week has to be seen as an extension of this past week. i'm still believing that we'll have a TA this week.

Would be nice to put this **** show behind us

 

[NYer]

Nope. Just tired of people believing everything they hear. The two fellas he is so quick to praise and glorify are not at the table nego. they are (assuming here) down the hall in another room getting updates when they caucus from time to time. But they are still only releasing info that the nego's allowed to be released. Still leaving the membership in the dark as usual, it's just sad. And they still ask for full support. Now how can you really ask for full support when no one knows what they would be fully supporting because they are not informed on what is really going on at the table. I would never support something I know nothing about. Heck by leaving everyone in the dark, the nego team could be agreeing to full blown outsourcing in exchange for 1.00 per hour above SWA rates (just an example guys, in no way am I suggesting) but no one knows this, and they are asking for full support behind the nego team. This is also why I have always said you guys won't know anything until T/A day, that's when all the details will be given to the membership.

Hopefully what's not happening is that they're negotiating to see what would make the legal issues go away.

Wouldn't want to face what AMFA is going through.

 

[Vortilon]

Hopefully what's not happening is that they're negotiating to see what would make the legal issues go away.

Wouldn't want to face what AMFA is going through.

That is exactly what they are doing.

 

[V.O. Reason]

Well I say this all we have here is speculation about what is going on and until they come out with an AIP over the next week or so or can’t get an agreement we are just left to speculate but hope this ends with an agreement to vote on

 

[wings396]

The LAA insurance actually covers more. The cost of the IAM Insurance is cheaper and covers less.

As many others have overlooked as well, it's the deductible and max out of pocket that's the issue. Compare those items, and get back to us with your findings.

 

[wings396]

The LAA insurance actually covers more. The cost of the IAM Insurance is cheaper and covers less.

The deductible alone goes from $450 to $3k for a family, please show me the good part of this?

 

[dfw gen]

As many others have overlooked as well, it's the deductible and max out of pocket that's the issue. Compare those items, and get back to us with your findings.

if the iam leadership had decided to get involved 3 years ago in trying to get a contract by actually showing up at quarterly company dog and pony shows in a show of solidarity with the twu leadership instead of kicking back and highlighting the chasm in the association that the company is currently exploiting we would have had a chance at the insurance. the iam LEADERSHIP attitude was force the association we are here and going nowhere why should we prove our value as partners and show solidarity in the association? its legally rock solid our position is secure let the twu spin it wheels. so here we are today, face it our chance at the insurance is gone the time to save it was 3 years ago when the iam LEADERSHIP had a chance to show thats its position in the association was actually as a partner in solidarity to further the interest in all of the association's members in doing so furthering its own membership's interest we would not be in this position today. today we are in an association self induced political mess where pressure is on the company and the association by the stock holders, FAA and a few other government entities to put this **** show to rest. the chance to show the value of the association was missed by the leadership's stubbornness and ego's to actually work together to make a bad idea that was implemented from a bad start and prove it could work. its a shame really because if the leadership of the association were able to put aside their differences in culture there was a small chance they could have surprised the membership with what they could have accomplished.

 

[dfw gen]

all the charts and figures do nothing it is what it is now.

 

[robbedagain]

Again it is why all of the LAA folks ive talked to would rather have our plan

 

[NYer]

Again it is why all of the LAA folks ive talked to would rather have our plan

They'd rather have your premiums, few if any, know your actual plans.

 

[swamt]

that's why i asked about full and partial retro. more fleet than AMTs, but the AMT raise is substantial (thanks to southwest and aa stalling).

the fact that they are meeting next week has to be seen as an extension of this past week. i'm still believing that we'll have a TA this week.

Did I just read that you guys benefited from AA stalling the nego's. Interesting. But I think your right. Matter fact I think they (AA) also jumped on the offer of SWA rates for the AA mechanics so not have to pay any higher, hoping the NC would have brought that last one out. So now, with further delays maybe there will be a true ILC pay scale offer and above SWA's rates.

Hopefully what's not happening is that they're negotiating to see what would make the legal issues go away.

Wouldn't want to face what AMFA is going through.

In hopes the asso can get rid of the legal issues in some sort of agreement. But I fear that the drastic moves by this rogue mechanic in Miami will keep going forward. Not saying there was a slow down or a job action, but with the charges by the co., the TRO and the perm. Order, then we get this rogue mechanic just cementing the case and how all this looks in the general public, I think that they may not have a choice but to pursue it. Samuelsons public blow ups on video doesn't help anything either.

At least in AMFA's case, there was no TRO, no perm. order and no rogue mechanics. There was in our case new paperwork packages that instructed many mechanics to write up very minor flaws that were yes, groundable issues, so the paperwork was quickly removed. It was the Max issues and the new guy they brought in thet got us our deal really quickly at the very end not some job action or slow down as there never was one. Big difference.

 

[dfw gen]

They'd rather have your premiums, few if any, know your actual plans.

There is a big difference there!

 

[NYer]

At least in AMFA's case, there was no TRO, no perm. order and no rogue mechanics. There was in our case new paperwork packages that instructed many mechanics to write up very minor flaws that were yes, groundable issues, so the paperwork was quickly removed. It was the Max issues and the new guy they brought in thet got us our deal really quickly at the very end not some job action or slow down as there never was one. Big difference.

The difference being SWA/AMFA and the current situation in LAA is that negotiation sessions were still scheduled during the legal issues.

The Association had to wait until New seasons wetter scheduled before trying to mitigate the damage. The sessions weren't scheduled until after the legal wrestling took its course.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Did I just read that you guys benefited from AA stalling the nego's. Interesting. But I think your right. Matter fact I think they (AA) also jumped on the offer of SWA rates for the AA mechanics so not have to pay any higher, hoping the NC would have brought that last one out. So now, with further delays maybe there will be a true ILC pay scale offer and above SWA's rates.

if aa had bent a tiny bit on outsourcing percentage, increased the bonuses a bit and offered fleet/AMTs & related 3% more than ua's top wages, aa would have avoided paying southwest's AMT wages and everyone else 3% more than delta's 4% raise - the 4% raise that goes into effect this week.

does anyone believe parker would have re-opened contracts and matched southwest's and delta's wage developments?

from the company's viewpoint, the increased wages and the nightmare PR summer would have been avoided.

it's been mentioned before..over their heads. the company and it's team of outside negotiators couldn't smell their fingers or get inside info from their fellow airline execs. and realize that just around the corner, delta and southwest will pony up to their employees and aa will end up allowing delta and southwest dictating their wages.

the association and aa...they are 2 bald guys fighting over a comb.

 

[NYer]

if aa had bent a tiny bit on outsourcing percentage, increased the bonuses a bit and offered fleet/AMTs & related 3% more than ua's top wages, aa would have avoided paying southwest's AMT wages and everyone else 3% more than delta's 4% raise - the 4% raise that goes into effect this week.

The Association wants more than just a tiny bit of a bend.

I'll go a step further, they wanted no outsourcing and at the same wanted to expand to get more work than what we currently have.

Those are on the opposite points of the spectrum.