American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Phoenix757767]

The pilots were not abrogated there second Ofer was better don’t care if you were there are not. That’s the truth. You twu spin zone dose not cut it. They also got snap back . But our twu screwed us and you were apart of it if you were there.

Pilots nor FAs got snap backs.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Retro isnt going to happen. The union can package the bonus and call it retro but this union simply isnt capable of retro. If so, then it will serve me well and i would get alot due to being topped out and overtime. Not Happening!

if i was the big-shot at the table, i'd make a stand on this.

company has made a stand(s) on insurance and some scope.

a PEB recommended full retro and interest for ua AMTs in the mid 2000s...despite ua crying about it's finances after 9-11.

aa has earned $20+ billion in the past 5 years?

sorry, have to make a stand on this.

 

[V.O. Reason]

if i was the big-shot at the table, i'd make a stand on this.

company has made a stand(s) on insurance and some scope.

a PEB recommended full retro and interest for ua AMTs in the mid 2000s...despite ua crying about it's finances after 9-11.

aa has earned $20+ billion in the past 5 years?

sorry, have to make a stand on this.

Yep and if they keep making those stands the longer this goes.
Like years longer and the company just keeps making money and laughs at us.
We loose more and more and if they can get a PEB there is no guarantee you win it
Then are total losses are way more than the retro.
Sorry don’t want to wait for that but then again we have no choice because we don’t have a voice but are just pawns in this stupid game

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Yep and if they keep making those stands the longer this goes.
Like years longer and the company just keeps making money and laughs at us.

so, the longer this goes?

what about the next one? no retro now, the company can drag it's feet for years the next time..and the assoc. would have been a facilitator for that by bending over now.

the BOD won't tip their hand and weaken the company's side by saying parker has to get this done, has 2 more quarters to do so...

but, you know there is some turmoil. the media has picked up the moaning and groaning from investment banks. i'd tell parker that i can wait, can you? from industry-leading to fair and equitable/comparable to ultra-stinginess.

 

[swamt]

Retro isnt going to happen. The union can package the bonus and call it retro but this union simply isnt capable of retro. If so, then it will serve me well and i would get alot due to being topped out and overtime. Not Happening!

But Retro can happen. It will be up to the membership. I do agree with you that this asso. is not capable of full retro, but the membership is. They need to get fully united and demand full retro. Make it a top priority and yes, Retro can happen. If the membership and/or this asso. let's retro pass them by it will pass you guys by everytime in the future nego's...

 

[swamt]

Pilots have more leverage and clout then any group.
So yeah they can do that.
Fleet and maint don’t have that luxury

I agree to a point. Yes Pilots do have more leverage. However, the mechanics could have the same as the Pilots if they were in their own union with no other additional groups or titles riding their backs.

 

[swamt]

so, the longer this goes?

what about the next one? no retro now, the company can drag it's feet for years the next time..and the assoc. would have been a facilitator for that by bending over now.

the BOD won't tip their hand and weaken the company's side by saying parker has to get this done, has 2 more quarters to do so...

but, you know there is some turmoil. the media has picked up the moaning and groaning from investment banks. i'd tell parker that i can wait, can you? from industry-leading to fair and equitable/comparable to ultra-stinginess.

It really does come down to who wins the waiting game. In our case, we did. We were willing to wait as long as it took to get what we deserved. Full retro, decent raises on each year and not skipping any years, industry average bonuses, article 2 scope left the same, and added vac options, time off, etc... One item we could not get increased was the 401K match. That is hard to get increased when we already have the industry leading 401K by 4-5%.
It did suk waiting 6.5 years, but we had to in order to get made whole. And we all say well worth winning the waiting game. If the membership really wanted to get the full retro they could if they were united enough just as we did. Our co. was fighting our demand of full retro all the way to the final 5 days of nego's when Kinder came in and got it done. Even paid 15 million over full retro. Doesn't sound like a lot, but when divided by the small amount of mechs we have (compared to the other airlines) that 15 million overpay comes to an average of over 6-7K for each mechanic. Not bad for a little padding huh?

 

[dfw gen]

Yep and if they keep making those stands the longer this goes.
Like years longer and the company just keeps making money and laughs at us.
We loose more and more and if they can get a PEB there is no guarantee you win it
Then are total losses are way more than the retro.
Sorry don’t want to wait for that but then again we have no choice because we don’t have a voice but are just pawns in this stupid game

just do like doug. put in as little as possible and take as much as you can.

 

[1AA]

It's funny how your guys want certain facts to be as you want them to be. Here's the chain of events.

The TWU, APFA & APA were "asked" for 20% cuts to their agreements.

The TWU and APFA passed new agreements and their 20% became 17%.

The APA didn't pass their agreement. The Judge ordered AMR could abrogate their contract. The APA went to the BK Judge and asked for the 17% everyone else got. AMR said, in Court AFTER the other groups received their adjusted percentage of 17% that the APA would receive the same only when they get a consensual agreement. That didn't happen until December 2012.

They would of received the 17% in June without the abrogation order, just like everyone else.

In all honesty who really cares about this stuff? I mean come on let us worry about our situation that is currently going on.

 

[V.O. Reason]

It really does come down to who wins the waiting game. In our case, we did. We were willing to wait as long as it took to get what we deserved. Full retro, decent raises on each year and not skipping any years, industry average bonuses, article 2 scope left the same, and added vac options, time off, etc... One item we could not get increased was the 401K match. That is hard to get increased when we already have the industry leading 401K by 4-5%.
It did suk waiting 6.5 years, but we had to in order to get made whole. And we all say well worth winning the waiting game. If the membership really wanted to get the full retro they could if they were united enough just as we did. Our co. was fighting our demand of full retro all the way to the final 5 days of nego's when Kinder came in and got it done. Even paid 15 million over full retro. Doesn't sound like a lot, but when divided by the small amount of mechs we have (compared to the other airlines) that 15 million overpay comes to an average of over 6-7K for each mechanic. Not bad for a little padding huh?

Well you were dealing with just one union, we are not.
I would love retro but this is likely my last contract so no I don’t want to wait another two years so screw that

 

[1AA]

Pilots have more leverage and clout then any group.
So yeah they can do that.
Fleet and maint don’t have that luxury

Not as much as before.
Envoy and AE are taking many mainline legs from AA crews.
Wake up folks.

 

[Talos]

so, the longer this goes?

what about the next one? no retro now, the company can drag it's feet for years the next time..and the assoc. would have been a facilitator for that by bending over now.

the BOD won't tip their hand and weaken the company's side by saying parker has to get this done, has 2 more quarters to do so...

but, you know there is some turmoil. the media has picked up the moaning and groaning from investment banks. i'd tell parker that i can wait, can you? from industry-leading to fair and equitable/comparable to ultra-stinginess.

You have a good point about big money not being happy with Parker and Isom. From what I've heard Isom walked back on some verbal agreements. Might have something to do with the court ruling, but you already have a work force that has watched mgmt devastate the operation and lose credibility. Waiting is something we are all used to. DFW is starting more changes tomorrow and it looks to be an epic failure. It's like mgmt doesn't know how to run an airline. They do know how to get paid and buy back stock.

 

[dfw gen]

You have a good point about big money not being happy with Parker and Isom. From what I've heard Isom walked back on some verbal agreements. Might have something to do with the court ruling, but you already have a work force that has watched mgmt devastate the operation and lose credibility. Waiting is something we are all used to. DFW is starting more changes tomorrow and it looks to be an epic failure. It's like mgmt doesn't know how to run an airline. They do know how to get paid and buy back stock.

the Executive Committee is considering next steps and an appropriate response.

still waiting for the next steps and or the appropriate response.....

 

[dfw gen]

You have a good point about big money not being happy with Parker and Isom. From what I've heard Isom walked back on some verbal agreements. Might have something to do with the court ruling, but you already have a work force that has watched mgmt devastate the operation and lose credibility. Waiting is something we are all used to. DFW is starting more changes tomorrow and it looks to be an epic failure. It's like mgmt doesn't know how to run an airline. They do know how to get paid and buy back stock.

And the association is afraid to tell us?

 

[1986Mekanic]

the Executive Committee is considering next steps and an appropriate response.

still waiting for the next steps and or the appropriate response.....

Im pretty sure they wont tell us.