American looking to "right-size" the company and staffing levels for the Fall and 2021

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

I'll be damned if I would take a financial hit for someone else's benefit.

My first responsibility is to myself and my family, not my coworkers.

For the most part coworkers are not friends, they are just people your stuck with for 8.5 hours a day (or more). People would do well to not forget that. It's not my job to see to someone else's financial security. In fact any topped out employee exceeds the median household income for the United States. They know they work for a volatile industry. If they don't have anything set back for a rainy day (especially if they live in a two income household) they are both living beyond their means and spending their money foolishly.


Indeed.


You would think people would learn but they just keep doing the same stupid thing over and over and over.

Perfect example.

Exactly.

Mechanics have sacrificed pay and benefits in the past to maintain headcount, How has that worked out for them?

There has NEVER been a reply of your's, that you've made on these boards, that I AGREE with you, More On !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[eolesen]

hard to walk away from an airline(s) that you have already pumped money into.

Not really. Pretty certain the airlines' money came out of the aviation airway trust fund, which is where Federal ticket taxes go to fund things like ATC NextGen. It was already collected from previous sales and not spent, so nothing really lost as far as Congress is concerned.

 

[dfw gen]

Not really. Pretty certain the airlines' money came out of the aviation airway trust fund, which is where Federal ticket taxes go to fund things like ATC NextGen. It was already collected from previous sales and not spent, so nothing really lost as far as Congress is concerned.

Besides when last was the government worried about wasting money,?

 

[ALUS78]

Besides when last was the government worried about wasting money,?

Saw an article the other day about all the worldwide aircraft being grounded I wonder what's going to happen to manufacturers and suppliers that's a chit load of jobs.Pretty big glut especially if huge airline with fairly new aircraft fails

 

[Kev3188]

fair enough, no argument here...could be lots of scenarios playing out.

i did see that lufthansa and the german govt. agreed to a 10€ billion aid package. i do believe this is somewhat a factor, all the way around the globe.

hard to walk away from an airline(s) that you have already pumped money into.

Maybe, but I think the intent of these packages was more akin to disaster relief than anything else. The 6 mos. of covering payroll gave carriers time for either the market to rebound or figure out what their recovery plan was.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Not really. Pretty certain the airlines' money came out of the aviation airway trust fund, which is where Federal ticket taxes go to fund things like ATC NextGen. It was already collected from previous sales and not spent, so nothing really lost as far as Congress is concerned.

everything i've read about the cares act uses terms:

- public funds
- taxpayer assistance
- taxpayer compensation
- taxpayer risk

The Act attaches some strings to these public funds that vary depending on whether the assistance is in the form of grants or loans

To provide compensation for taxpayer assistance to private industries, the Treasury may take equity positions in participating firms.

Similar to the ATSSSA, CARES provides for taxpayer compensation in the form of equity stakes in participating companies.

Taxpayer Protection

The CARES Act provides that the Secretary of the Treasury may enter into agreements with grantees to receive compensation in the form of warrants, stock, or other instruments to compensate for taxpayer risk. For recipients of credit assistance, the Act requires that the Secretary receive equity compensation.

 

[swamt]

how could aa not allow the new contract to continue to go forward?

I was referring to the time back when COVID-19 popped up on radar and the AA mechanics, fleet and other ground employees have yet voted on their contract offer. They were trying to get the final writings finalized and put out in writing, I even thought it was prior to the international voting for it to come out as well, and I was thinking that AA may pull the offer off the table before it gets finalized and all that. But was surprised to find AA was still going to allow the offer to stand as it was even after they new this crisis was going to get real bad real fast.

 

[swamt]

this is true and united has been the biggest squawker about layoffs.

it all depends on the next aid package - if there is one. if the airlines are allowed to layoff, look out. there's the cost advantage and if united does so, then everyone else will also layoff, including aa, despite parker's public hopes and wishes that aa won't need to layoff.

to me, it looks like aa has put itself in a position to layoff for oct. a few dozen ramp C/C jobs in my station were eliminated for a bid coming up - all that inside the fog of this crisis. mngt. will do the work once done by LAA C/Cs.

is this temporary (i believe the union will protest this once it occurs) or permanent (iam language)???

if permanent, there go a bunch of C/C jobs..i believe the ratio in the contract is 1 C/C for every 12 FSCs. if they get rid of FSCs, they can eliminate C/C positions.

domestic is coming back..legacy airlines need intls. back in the air.

Agree that if UAL starts the layoffs others will follow in order to keep up.
I say it will be a toss up on who does it first though. AA or United? Hell Delta may come in here first off and pull the lower hours and/or reduced pay along with it. Who knows at this point? All we do know is changes are coming sometime this year. How drastic and how deep will be the questions that need to be answered.

 

[1AA]

I was referring to the time back when COVID-19 popped up on radar and the AA mechanics, fleet and other ground employees have yet voted on their contract offer. They were trying to get the final writings finalized and put out in writing, I even thought it was prior to the international voting for it to come out as well, and I was thinking that AA may pull the offer off the table before it gets finalized and all that. But was surprised to find AA was still going to allow the offer to stand as it was even after they new this crisis was going to get real bad real fast.

The current JCBA is being utilized for the most part. Most articles took affect almost immediately. Other articles will fall into place over time.
There was a letter explaining this from the association. Unfortunately some stuff wont take affect for a while which pretty much makes you wonder how prepared the Company and the dysfunctional association were when they agreed on articles they knew could not be implemented for a while.

 

[swamt]

More BK's being filed directly tied to the COVID-19 crisis. Latam Airways and now Hertz. Gee, no flyers means no cars needed to rent, at least at the airport rental lots.
Latam blaming the lockdown and it is apparently getting really bad down in Chile with the virus...

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/latam-airlines-files-chapter-11-041137867.html

OOPS! Forgot to add the Hertz article:

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/hertz-files-bankruptcy-rental-car-015628921.html

 

[swamt]

The current JCBA is being utilized for the most part. Most articles took affect almost immediately. Other articles will fall into place over time.
There was a letter explaining this from the association. Unfortunately some stuff wont take affect for a while which pretty much makes you wonder how prepared the Company and the dysfunctional association were when they agreed on articles they knew could not be implemented for a while.

To be quite honest, I have never been able to figure out the mentality behind any contracts nego at AA even before this asso. when it was TWU. IMO everything should be enacted all on day one of agreed to date or DOS. In the past the TWU has also nego unwritten and non finalized language and even had a vote pass it, then they finalized the unfinished and non written language after they new is was passed. That is just beyond me that any union would ever agree to such unprofessional methods of doing business especially when long and detailed contracts are used. Does anyone thing any one of your CEO's, CFO's, Pres, VP's etc... Any of these folks would sign an unfinished employment contract before any and all language is finalized or left unwritten? Not a chance in hell guys. So why would this asso. do it to their members? You guys really do need to get rid of this asso. before they completely destroy the Mech and related careers.

 

[Kev3188]

Agree that if UAL starts the layoffs others will follow in order to keep up.
I say it will be a toss up on who does it first though. AA or United? Hell Delta may come in here first off and pull the lower hours and/or reduced pay along with it. Who knows at this point? All we do know is changes are coming sometime this year. How drastic and how deep will be the questions that need to be answered.

Lower hours at DL are now in effect through 9/30. They have been pretty clear that they prefer hour cuts/leaves to cutting base rates. Whether that's due to the CARES Act or not remains to be seen.

 

[jimntx]

Lower hours at DL are now in effect through 9/30. They have been pretty clear that they prefer hour cuts/leaves to cutting base rates. Whether that's due to the CARES Act or not remains to be seen.

Kev, who is "they?" The workers or the managers?

 

[Kev3188]

Oh sorry- I should've been clearer.

"They" = The C-Suite at Delta.

 

[Rogallo]

To be quite honest, I have never been able to figure out the mentality behind any contracts nego at AA even before this asso. when it was TWU. IMO everything should be enacted all on day one of agreed to date or DOS. In the past the TWU has also nego unwritten and non finalized language and even had a vote pass it, then they finalized the unfinished and non written language after they new is was passed. That is just beyond me that any union would ever agree to such unprofessional methods of doing business especially when long and detailed contracts are used. Does anyone thing any one of your CEO's, CFO's, Pres, VP's etc... Any of these folks would sign an unfinished employment contract before any and all language is finalized or left unwritten? Not a chance in hell guys. So why would this asso. do it to their members? You guys really do need to get rid of this asso. before they completely destroy the Mech and related careers.

Hell, they can't even figure out an effective date.....

Maybe they'll fill that in later!

The Front Cover.....