American looking to "right-size" the company and staffing levels for the Fall and 2021

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

it's contractual, i can do better than hope - i can expect it.

if the company files, i may lose a few dollars an hour, but the top brass will be gone. i still believe they want to get through this and lead the airline when we get to the vaccine era.

CremaDiLimone I hope things work out for you.

However you are talking to someone who first hand witnessed a UNION officer (2 in fact) ENCOURAGE a concessionary contract that eliminated his job. Let me be very clear, I don't just mean my job I mean HIS job as well. However he made a deal with management to save his own ass and I did not have that benefit.

So PLEASE spare me the "it's contractual" diatribe. In this age of lobbyist and crooked government (and crooked UNION officers) your contract has just slightly more worth than toilet paper during a pandemic.

 

[V.O. Reason]

Well since it’s now apparent there will be no payroll protection for the airlines and possibly not until next year.
I now believe AA is on the path to file bankruptcy by March
There is no way AA survives unless they lower their cost and the unions helping by giving concessions won’t do it.
If we thought 2020 was bad 2021 will be worse especially if Biden wins

 

[CremaDiLimone]

CremaDiLimone I hope things work out for you.

However you are talking to someone who first hand witnessed a UNION officer (2 in fact) ENCOURAGE a concessionary contract that eliminated his job. Let me be very clear, I don't just mean my job I mean HIS job as well. However he made a deal with management to save his own ass and I did not have that benefit.

So PLEASE spare me the "it's contractual" diatribe. In this age of lobbyist and crooked government (and crooked UNION officers) your contract has just slightly more worth than toilet paper during a pandemic.

it's a nice story, but i can still point to a piece of toilet paper and know what the company is contractually obligated to do.

6 months ago, the company pointed to the same piece of toilet paper to tell all PTers that were going to work 15 hours a week.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Well since it’s now apparent there will be no payroll protection for the airlines and possibly not until next year.
I now believe AA is on the path to file bankruptcy by March
There is no way AA survives unless they lower their cost and the unions helping by giving concessions won’t do it.
If we thought 2020 was bad 2021 will be worse especially if Biden wins

when the stimulus happens, the assumption is that the airline PSP part will be retro to oct. 1, 2020.

on oct. 1, 2020, aa had $15.6 billion in liquidity. aa estimates it's 4th quarter cash burn rate to be between $25 million-$30 million a day.

aa's biggest non-airline debt maturity is a $750 million bond issue that matures in 2022. aa's board recently OKed an authorization to offer $1 billion in stock - the stock would get diluted a bit, but that money could be used for that bond issue - that's the assumption, anyways.

i believe the company said that the severance packages and layoffs cost them nearly $900 million - and that was their own money, couldn't use PSP money for packages.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

There is no way AA survives unless they lower their cost and the unions helping by giving concessions won’t do it.

during the late summer, aa borrowed more from the CARES act monies...can't remember how many more billion, but rates were in the higher 3% or some 375 basis points. i believe it was nearly $5 billion.

delta went private, borrowed up to $9 billion from private markets at a blended rate of 4.75%. i'm not entirely sure why delta preferred unencumbered money at 100 basis points higher than what aa will repay the govt.

 

[robbedagain]

So your for unions and such.
You know what helps unions and wages.
A strong economy where all benefit from it. Something Trump made happen until the plague.
Total BS the senate was responsible for no bill 2 weeks ago McConnel said he would consider a higher bill if they could reach an agreement with witch Polosi
Well she decided not to go forward and get it done.
Enjoy your democratic socialist country when the democrats take control
Hopefully you won’t be on the street hopping to find bread to feed your family

I've been on both sides of union n nonunion. I prefer union representation compared to being an at will employee

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I've been on both sides of union n nonunion. I prefer union representation compared to being an at will employee

Funny, I had the opposite experience.

I don't like my value being tied to nothing more than an occupational seniority date. My efficiency and quality of work mean NOTHING in a UNION. After about 8 years of that BS I just stopped giving a sh*t because if AA's weak ass management doesn't care why should I?

I found TWU to be full of narcissistic, self important, self serving, sycophants. They call you brother until selling you out benefits them.

I got tired of coming to work and seeing people do absolutely NOTHING because they felt entitled, through seniority, to sit there and collect a check but not contribute anything to daily operations. I did not see that so much on the line but TULE was RAMPANT with it in my shop (I can't speak to other shops).

We had crew chiefs who's only mission in life was to sit in the office soaking up air conditioning. We had good crew chiefs when I started but after they retired for the most part (with few exceptions) we had one loser crew chief after another (one was so incompetent management FINALLY forced him to step down).

My own UNION local president, who I PAY UNION DUES to REPRESENT ME was encouraging us to vote for a concessionary contract that did away with our jobs (except he had an under the table deal with management so he was never "inconvenienced" with a layoff).

So tell me, what do you find so alluring about being a member of the TWU? Because from where I sit it was a total sh*t show.

I am MUCH happier now working as an at will employee.

I don't have anything against UNIONs in general (I was part of one other and it was a fine experience) but TWU was such a train wreck. By the way I have worked both sides FOR THE SAME COMPANY (American Airlines). I started American Airlines working at Triad in revenue accounting auditing tickets bought through travel agencies to make sure they complied with fare rules. I can say it was a lot different experience (and a lot better) than working for the UNION side. I was 4 times as productive and had half the stress.

To each his own I guess. I just wonder if you truly believe working under a UNION is better or you have just been conditioned to think it is.

 

[Kev3188]

Funny, I had the opposite experience.

I don't think anyone will argue that your time in the TWU was garbage. You had poor representation, and cowardly co-workers.

That said, I think you are conflating your own experience with unions in general. Not everyone drew the same short straw you did.

 

[jimntx]

Well since it’s now apparent there will be no payroll protection for the airlines and possibly not until next year.
I now believe AA is on the path to file bankruptcy by March
There is no way AA survives unless they lower their cost and the unions helping by giving concessions won’t do it.
If we thought 2020 was bad 2021 will be worse especially if Biden wins

I'm afraid you are correct, but I certainly hope that you are proved wrong. I went through the last bankruptcy. Didn't like it I must say--especially the cut in First Class amenities forcing those of us who worked mostly in F/C to listen to the complaints about things which we could do nothing about other than report the complaints. You know it's funny that you and I AND the average F/C passenger complained regularly about the oxymoron called "airplane food," but By Cracky it had better appear on my tray table not too long after takeoff if I'm a frequent flyer.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I don't think anyone will argue that your time in the TWU was garbage. You had poor representation, and cowardly co-workers.

That said, I think you are conflating your own experience with unions in general. Not everyone drew the same short straw you did.

There is probably a lot of truth in what you say Kev.

However when people in general (not TWU members and not airline workers) bad mouth UNIONs the things they complain about are exactly the negative experiences I had in the TWU. So you have to wonder just how widespread those problems really are.

You are exactly right about one thing though.

I had poor representation and my ex coworkers were cowards. Though looking back having piss poor management contributed as well.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I'm afraid you are correct, but I certainly hope that you are proved wrong. I went through the last bankruptcy. Didn't like it I must say--especially the cut in First Class amenities forcing those of us who worked mostly in F/C to listen to the complaints about things which we could do nothing about other than report the complaints. You know it's funny that you and I AND the average F/C passenger complained regularly about the oxymoron called "airplane food," but By Cracky it had better appear on my tray table not too long after takeoff if I'm a frequent flyer.

You guys make what, like $40 an hour? You will live.

 

[Kev3188]

There is probably a lot of truth in what you say Kev.

I would certainly hope so; I wrote that sentence based on what you've posted over the years.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Other than the 'Human Nature' of complaining, In all the years of me working for AMTRAK,( in 4 different states), NOT ONCE did I ever hear of anyone complaining about what the unions ( TWU/IAM-TCU) provided. (Pay, Bennies ETC).

AA/TWU, different story, thanx to TUL/DFW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Other than the 'Human Nature' of complaining, In all the years of me working for AMTRAK,( in 4 different states), NOT ONCE did I ever hear of anyone complaining about what the unions ( TWU/IAM-TCU) provided. (Pay, Bennies ETC).

AA/TWU, different story, thanx to TUL/DFW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bears if you were paying attention........ I was not complaining about the pay and benefits. Those are very exceptional by Oklahoma standards (except vacation allotment, that part SUCKS). I was complaining about the toxicity of the UNION culture there. TULE reeks of laziness and entitlement.

 

[eolesen]

Other than the 'Human Nature' of complaining, In all the years of me working for AMTRAK,( in 4 different states), NOT ONCE did I ever hear of anyone complaining about what the unions ( TWU/IAM-TCU) provided. (Pay, Bennies ETC).

If taxpayers had a say (or better yet, a vote) on public sector union contracts, you'd see a much different story.