AMFA 10 years ago at NWA

[bigjets]

In case we forgot what exactly happened there, and what happened to the mechs.
 
 
 
 
Red Tails documentary
 
 
http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/the_red_tail
 
 
AMFA and Delta
 
http://www.seattlepi.com/business/article/Union-that-struck-Northwest-gives-up-on-Delta-1301216.php
 
 
NWA AMFA strike
 
https://libcom.org/library/the-2005-northwest-airlines-strike

 

[bigjets]

Eastern airlines
 
battle for eastern
 
 
part 1
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSSPAM3vauw    
 
 
part 2
 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mya5HUDOWX0
 
 
AA buys Eastern assets 
 
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1989-12-20/business/8903190449_1_south-american-routes-eastern-deal-american-airlines

 

[Kev3188]

All three are great, and oughta be required viewing.

That said, where're you going here?

 

[chellow]

I Think bigjet wants us to become indentured servants to the airline, you know the TWU model for a union. That we shouldn't be like the IAM at Eastern or AMFA at NW and fight for what's is right.

 

[bigjets]

I'm looking at these other guys who were all self righteous and are now looking for new careers, you can't fight the market. The last decade plus has been transformal for the airline industry now the airlines are making money after adjusting business plans. AA is giving industry leading contracts now, delta just gives raises and PS, after taking cutbacks from their employees.

One reason AMFA got broke, is that when NWA needed to talk about concessions AMFA wouldn't speak of it because they had a contract. AMFA made their point, NWA made their point, AMFA mechanics were replaced, then AMFA didn't get any interest from delta mechs. The reason AA mechs took such a big hit in 2003 was we all took big hits to save OH, only to lose most of it later, just goes to show you, it doesn't work to give up pay for jobs.

I see it all the time, a group of whiners, build themselves into hysteria and are upset the rest of the night. Thinking management is out to fire everybody, think about it when was the last time someone was fired for something other then sick time abuse, and if there was a guy fired would you hire him at your own business, rhetorical I know the answer.

 

[topDawg]

I'm looking at these other guys who were all self righteous and are now looking for new careers, you can't fight the market. The last decade plus has been transformal for the airline industry now the airlines are making money after adjusting business plans. AA is giving industry leading contracts now, delta just gives raises and PS, after taking cutbacks from their employees.

One reason AMFA got broke, is that when NWA needed to talk about concessions AMFA wouldn't speak of it because they had a contract. AMFA made their point, NWA made their point, AMFA mechanics were replaced, then AMFA didn't get any interest from delta mechs. The reason AA mechs took such a big hit in 2003 was we all took big hits to save OH, only to lose most of it later, just goes to show you, it doesn't work to give up pay for jobs.

I see it all the time, a group of whiners, build themselves into hysteria and are upset the rest of the night. Thinking management is out to fire everybody, think about it when was the last time someone was fired for something other then sick time abuse, and if there was a guy fired would you hire him at your own business, rhetorical I know the answer.

So if AA came to you tomorrow and said we want to outsource your job 
 
You would vote yes right? 

 

[AA-MRO.COM]

 The reason AA mechs took such a big hit in 2003 was we all took big hits to save OH, only to lose most of it later, just goes to show you, it doesn't work to give up pay for jobs.
 
That is the twu way pay for jobs
We have been getting bent over since the 1993 remember the  six year deal the twu negotiated that was the beginning of the end for the AA AMT

 

[topDawg]

 The reason AA mechs took such a big hit in 2003 was we all took big hits to save OH, only to lose most of it later, just goes to show you, it doesn't work to give up pay for jobs.
 
That is the twu way pay for jobs
We have been getting bent over since the 1993 remember the  six year deal the twu negotiated that was the beginning of the end for the AA AMT

not so sure that is fair. 
 
Just to be completely honest the TWU (from the outside looking in) bough the AA bluff in BK. APA/APFA didn't. 
 
as it is though are the 777s not the only overhauls yall send out? 

 

[swamt]

 The reason AA mechs took such a big hit in 2003 was we all took big hits to save OH, only to lose most of it later, just goes to show you, it doesn't work to give up pay for jobs.
 
That is the twu way pay for jobs
We have been getting bent over since the 1993 remember the  six year deal the twu negotiated that was the beginning of the end for the AA AMT

Try 1983 sir, you skipped 10 years there...

 

[MetalMover]

I'm looking at these other guys who were all self righteous and are now looking for new careers, you can't fight the market. The last decade plus has been transformal for the airline industry now the airlines are making money after adjusting business plans. AA is giving industry leading contracts now, delta just gives raises and PS, after taking cutbacks from their employees.

One reason AMFA got broke, is that when NWA needed to talk about concessions AMFA wouldn't speak of it because they had a contract. AMFA made their point, NWA made their point, AMFA mechanics were replaced, then AMFA didn't get any interest from delta mechs. The reason AA mechs took such a big hit in 2003 was we all took big hits to save OH, only to lose most of it later, just goes to show you, it doesn't work to give up pay for jobs.

I see it all the time, a group of whiners, build themselves into hysteria and are upset the rest of the night. Thinking management is out to fire everybody, think about it when was the last time someone was fired for something other then sick time abuse, and if there was a guy fired would you hire him at your own business, rhetorical I know the answer.

There's a new AA in town.

 

[Vortilon]

Try 1983 sir, you skipped 10 years there...

It is the same thing every contract.  Local 514's elected leadership always attracts the wrong people.  Seriously, IIRC local 514 has elected convicted felons, non A&P type "and relateds", fleet service clerks - really?  We are talking about what was once the largest maintenance local in the system.  The insanity has to stop.
 
the 83 contract introduced the B scale.  In 92, we got the contact extension, and the merge of all the pay scales.  The six year 95 contract brought us a 1% raise every year for 6 years.  This was while the company was making record profits.  This contract was very divisive.  It targeted retirees, and non - A&P types who help water down the A&P votes.  The card count controversy also comes to mind.  Not unlike the 2003 scam contract - brought to us by that sawed off - POS Jim Little!

 

[bigjets]

So if AA came to you tomorrow and said we want to outsource your job 
 
You would vote yes right? 

 
I would vote no like the AMFA mechs did, it's a no brainer.
 
 
This will be an unpopular post, the TWU did right by the membership by talking with AA in 2003, just like AMFA did a disservice to it's membership by not talking to NWA. The airline industry was losing a lot of employees and reshaping their business models, we would have lost thousands of jobs, in a bad job market, especially in Dallas and Tulsa. As a senior line mechanic I'm sure I would have been fine, but the OH guys would have been in a bad place. No one knew it would take 12 years before labor would be getting back anything or that AA would go into bankruptcy. Hindsight being 20/20, bankruptcy would have been better for the line mechanic in 2003, but for the overall membership avoiding bankruptcy was the correct call. IMHO
 
 
 
AMFA mades it point, NWA mades it's point, now AMFA mechs have new careers, the NWA scabs are making $43 an hour working for Delta, and AMFA did not get any interest at the combined NWA Delta airline.

 

[bigjets]

I Think bigjet wants us to become indentured servants to the airline, you know the TWU model for a union. That we shouldn't be like the IAM at Eastern or AMFA at NW and fight for what's is right.

 
I believe in whats right but I also have  realistic expectations. If I thought I had it so bad I would look for another job. 
 
The IAM forced Eastern to push out the CEO and get Lorenzo who pushed the airline industry to where we are today, and AMFA wouldn't even discuss concessions with NWA in 2003. Instead of thinking the company is just out to screw you, expect something bad for your paycheck during the worst economic crisis since the depression, and expect a 23% raise today when AA made $4b profit. We gave when necessary now its time for us to get. 

 

[Duke787]

 
I would vote no like the AMFA mechs did, it's a no brainer.
 
 
This will be an unpopular post, the TWU did right by the membership by talking with AA in 2003, just like AMFA did a disservice to it's membership by not talking to NWA. The airline industry was losing a lot of employees and reshaping their business models, we would have lost thousands of jobs, in a bad job market, especially in Dallas and Tulsa. As a senior line mechanic I'm sure I would have been fine, but the OH guys would have been in a bad place. No one knew it would take 12 years before labor would be getting back anything or that AA would go into bankruptcy. Hindsight being 20/20, bankruptcy would have been better for the line mechanic in 2003, but for the overall membership avoiding bankruptcy was the correct call. IMHO
 
 
 
AMFA mades it point, NWA mades it's point, now AMFA mechs have new careers, the NWA scabs are making $43 an hour working for Delta, and AMFA did not get any interest at the combined NWA Delta airline.

 
 
IAM made it's point and wanted Borman out, and Lorenzo made his point and built up continental at the expense of Eastern, Employees then went on to be junior employees at other airlines. The pilots at TWA made it's point and wanted their CEO gone and Carl Ichon in, Carl gets richer at the expense of TWA employees, TWA employees then go on to be on the bottom of the seniority list at AA.

 

[Bob Owens]

 
 
IAM made it's point and wanted Borman out, and Lorenzo made his point and built up continental at the expense of Eastern, Employees then went on to be junior employees at other airlines. The pilots at TWA made it's point and wanted their CEO gone and Carl Ichon in, Carl gets richer at the expense of TWA employees, TWA employees then go on to be on the bottom of the seniority list at AA.

Seniority should not take precedence over compensation, the idea is to make as much as possible and get out, not work till you die. Most of our EAL coworkers have retired, they spent most of their careers pushing for Max pay and put enough away to retire.  TWA, well they will be here till they die, while the EAL guys started they spent an extra decade giving things away at the lowest wage in the industry.  EAL guys made it to the top of the AA payscale in two years in the locations most of them ended up. TWA guys gave everything away to Ichan in hopes he would keep the carrier alive. He didn't, so now many are working till they die with at best 25% seniority (except STL).