AMFA not filing

[WeAAsles]

TWU/IAM cheerleader tired of hearing people blame their worthless impotent shitty unions? No surprise there.

How are your dear friends in who used to be a part of AA management doing these days. Do they miss being with us after their butts were sacked?

Really must sux that the gravy train pulled out of the Station without them?

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

It doesnt matter if you support it or not, you are not an AA employee nor will you have a vote.

I have an American Airlines pension.
 
My wife works for AA. My wife has a vote.
 
Who do you work for? Neither one so shut it. 
 
Idiot.

 

[swamt]

CMH_GSE,
How much longer? The point is you had it four years ago. We were advised by the vote no coalition to vote it down remember? Also SK balance increase and elimination of the 50% SK pay was in the 2010 TA. When you vote on your next deal remember what you were advised to vote down based on the advice of many of your current 591 E Board.
 
And before you say they were going to BK anyway, the contract would have been back up for negotiations in 2013 which was right when AMR filed BK.
 

• Sick Leave: Increase the sick leave accrual rate from 5 to 8 days per year and increase the maximum accumulation of sick time from 150 days to 250 days. This was made in conjunction with the Retiree Medical proposal. All SK days will be paid at 100%.

And swamt is pointing out that the deal that was in the TWU 2010 TA was part what AMFA has but still kept the retiree medical intact for the 50 and older crowd which is better than the AMFA deal then and now. Unfortunately enough members believed in the vote no coalition, so much so they voted them to negotiate them in at 591 to negotiate our new JCBA for us. Optimistic about their ability to get us a good deal? Good thing the IAM is in the Association driver seat.

I think you have the wrong guy.  I pointed nothing out in the TWU 2010 TA.
 

Too bad, looks like we are now stuck with the "same ole company union"....Guess we will find out how good/bad the association is in about a year or so if they get us a contract...

Year or so?  Really??  You guys have got to stop believing everything the TWU tells you.  There are dramatic differences between the two current contracts from both sides.  I really hope you guys get the best of both but I do not see that happening with this association and this company.  IMO you guys have way over a year if not 2-4 years.  Just wait and see how the TWU and IAM will bump heads over the huge differences between the two contracts.  Parker has shown so far that he is willing to pay the Delta plus 7 and I foresee you guys getting the same, however, it will come at a huge cost, and it will take years to get there because of the huge cost it will take.  Good luck but expecting a contract in about one year from now is way too early IMO...
 

I have been on the outside since the layoffs of 2012, although I held out some hope of AMFA getting in for the mechanics I now see that will not happen anytime soon. It is apparent that a majority of the membership wants the TWU/IAM association regardless of the warnings that have been issued. In the spirit of H L Menken, if the association is what they want, then they deserve to get it good and hard!!







The Dissident

I will blame the membership of AA and US combined.  They will get what they deserve by not getting the option for a vote and this is exactly what this association wanted and got...
 

First, I'm still waiting to hear what Weaasles thinks is ample time to pass before we should expect to get our money back, or just admit, that was a stupid statement, and yes, we got rolled by the company on the company match.
Sorry, but that one sticks in my craw because I was told by the TWU the language on the prefunding was iron clad, turns out it really wasn't.

Second, let's not totally revise history.

The 2010 TA.
There were things in it I did not like and there were things missing that I wanted.
At the end of the day, the 2010 TA wasn't voted down by some rogue "vote no" coalition.
It was voted down by over 2/3 of the membership, the vote wasn't even close, because most of the membership felt that it fell far short of what it should have been, given the circumstances at the time.

I guess the majority of the membership that voted down the TA, thought the company needed to step up with a better deal, because the company and the union told us they would when we bailed them out in 2003, should be blamed in the end, because we trusted the company would make good on their word to us.

What I've learned from the 2010 TA , and the ensuing BK and the fallout from that is, you can't really trust anyone. To illustrate, I give you T. Horton & Jim Little as examples...

Our contract language is only good until things get so bad, the company pleads with us to change it so they can all keep their high position jobs and pay.
The contract was changed in a matter of WEEKS back in 2003, weeks, not months.

When the economic climate changes dramatically better than what our language is written for, we can't change it nearly as quickly, in fact , we went 4 YEARS without a raise, 4 years...
Just let that sink in for few minutes.
They took our pay and benefits away in a matter of weeks in 2003.
We then went 3+ years without a raise while we "negotiated"?
We finally got a raise 4 yrs and 4 months after our 40 cents per hour raise.
May 1, 2008 was our 5th year in a row for a 40 cents per hour raise each yr.
Our next raise was 82 cents per hour September 12, 2012.

So when I read Weaasles write: (paraphrasing "don't be in a hurry to get the company match back, because they might roll it into something really cool and liberal") I say, kiss my ass , pay me what you owe me now, I'll decide what to use MY money for, I don't want the union deciding what to use my money for, it's not like they don't have the money.

Fast forward to today, the land of plenty at AA, as in 4 Billion with a "B" in profits.
It would take nothing more than a stroke of the pen by Parker to add to our pay, without any JCBA.
There would be no challenge or objection by either Union to add some pay to our compensation as a showing of good faith.
It didn't take any special conditions to take our pay away, it shouldn't take any special conditions (JCBA) to give some back.

But, the games continue, and it will likely be another year or more before we see any meaningful improvement.

Don't be upset with guys wishing to have better union representation, it's not personal, there are some things the TWU failed at.

It's the right of the membership to demand something better, and that's really what this is all about.

Its the right of the membership to hold their representatives responsible for their standing in the industry.

Well said sir...

 

[Overspeed]

swamt,
You spoke about the ability of SWA AMFA members to purchase retiree medical with SK time. I pointed out that the plan you have had, we were going to go to for our under 50 members only while maintaining for the 50 and older people the prefunding system with company match.
 
As you stated the SK payment plan is a viable alterative to the prefunding plan but now we have neither SK time funding or pre-funding. I would very much like to have been on the SK time funded plan. How do your members like it? I would like that option in our next CBA.

 

[2ndGENAMT]

Oldguy@AA,
No. You didn't read it. You kept retiree medical, the funding method changed. You didn't read the TA and you got sucked in to the vote no coalition BS. The lump sum was for base only. But you showed the company, you gave up retiree medical, the lump sum, pension, and much higher outsourcing.
 
And if you really are an old guy, you would have stayed status quo and your retiree medical would have stayed as it was prior to BK. You did not vote wisely grasshopper.
 
 
Retiree Medical:

o Current Retirees: No changes to plans for current retirees.
o Current Employees 50 or older (with either 120 months prefunding or who opted into prefunding when first eligible): No changes to current plans.
o Current Employees 49 or Younger

Pre-65: Employees may fund Pre-65 retiree medical coverage with sick bank hours at a rate of 20 hours per month of coverage for themselves and all eligible
dependents. Employee pre-funding does not apply and the Sick Leave article will be amended to accrue a maximum of 8 days per year and to change the maximum accrual to 250 days. If a retirees sick bank is insufficient to provide medical coverage until the retiree turns 65, the retiree will pay monthly premiums at the same rate as other groups that are post-funding for retiree medical coverage at that time (currently 25% of the cost).
Post-65: Retirees will have access to a guaranteed issue Medicare supplement plan with no company subsidy.
o Employer prefunding contributions will cease at date of signing.
o The Company and TWU will establish a joint committee as soon as possible to explore rollover options for employee prefunding balances. Absent an option identified, active prefunding balances will be refunded by 12/31/2010.
o Eliminate the provision providing a $25 per-sick-day payout upon retirement.
o Under both options, the plan design will be the same as management, which includes preventive care in-network.
o Increase medical life-time maximum from $300,000 to $500,000
o New Hires

Pre-65: New hires may fund Pre-65 retiree medical coverage with sick bank hours at a rate of 20 hours per month of coverage for themselves and all eligible dependents. Employee pre-funding does not apply and the Sick Leave article will be amended to accrue a maximum of 8 days per year and to change the maximum accrual to 250 days. If a retirees sick bank is insufficient to provide medical coverage until the retiree turns 65, the retiree will pay monthly premiums, actuarially based on family status and age bands at the retirees expense.
Post-65: Retirees will have access to a guaranteed issue Medicare supplement plan with no company subsidy.

  

How do you know that the language that originally was written isn't iron clad yet if the Union hasn't taken it to Arbitration or even court if need be to settle that possible argument? Currently in regards to the BK language of "Upon successful completion of the 1114" the APFA is in the middle of their own Arbitration and is arguing that by the company not utilizing that feature of the court they are in violation of the intent of their language. Essentially arguing that the company was obliged to go forward with that process.
And yes you can say we ALL got rolled when it came to that language which was forced on us at the hands of a BK gun. (I know you guys would have preferred they shoot you instead and just take your wallet from your cold dead corpse)
 


And if that money is returned then even the consideration of it maybe being used for what it was originally intended to be used for evaporates like a fart in the wind. It could easily be negotiated that a "choice" is optional. It can be rolled over into your sick bank (If you'd like) or it can be returned to you. Again the thing I continue to advocate for is choice.
Besides the company still has not initiated the Adversarial proceeding against the retirees to do away with or modify their medical and there are still lingering issues that are being argued before Judge Lane. The book of the AA BK has not been closed yet.
 
Scheduled Court Hearings
 
(Jointly Administered)
All hearings will be before the Hon. Sean H. Lane and are located
at the below address unless otherwise noted:United States Bankruptcy Court
Southern District of New York
Alexander Hamilton Custom House
Courtroom 701
One Bowling Green
New York, NY 10004-1408November 19, 2015 at 11:00 a.m. (EST) Fifty-Ninth Omnibus Hearinghttp://www.amrcaseinfo.com/hearings.php
 


I agree very much with this statement and it would have went a long way towards the New AA proving that things were going to truly be different. All they did by withholding that money was prove that the only thing they consider us is Donkey's who they hope will continue to sow the fields while trying to get at that carrot on a stick.
Nice to read someone blame the Company on this Forums board for a change.

The 2010 TA was a divisive agreement which the Company has been offering up for my entire career, the real crime is that my paid representatives have agreed to all of these "Contracts" over the years and is the reason they usually pass by a slim margin..

Weaasles, which company are you glad to see someone blame AA or the TWU because these days Industrial Unions are nothing more than a corporation IMO!

 

[Overspeed]

700UW,
1,000 sort has got to be BS. Based on the turnout AMFA got at the US IAM and IBT election they got 8 cards at US.
 
Here’s the count from the National Mediation Board:
 
Cast for Votes Share Machinists 1,903 56.8% Teamsters 1,418 42.3% AMFA write-in 8 0.2% No representation 21 0.6% Total 3,350 100.0%

 

[700UW]

I have an American Airlines pension.
 
My wife works for AA. My wife has a vote.
 
Who do you work for? Neither one so shut it. 
 
Idiot.

You aren't your wife, you have no vote, you left AA and took taxpayer money to go to school, how much unemployment did you collect too?

Your pension is frozen.

So my son's mother is still at US.

The only idiot I see is you can who can't debate with facts and has to turn everything political or insult and attack people.

You are so clueless you support AMFA for the mechanics and they would cut your throat to oh wait you don't work for AA.

 

[767 mechanic]

So La Li is less of a member than you. At least his PRESENT wife works for AA. You are such a hypocrite and liar. You are not even an iam member,but you are prevy to confidential union information?????? Sounds to me like someone in the iam needs to brought up on charges. As far as you two morons you have no idea how many cards that we have. All you do know is that we did not file and that is it.

 

[700UW]

Never said that, he busts my chops and he is in the same boat.
 
That is called being a hypocrite.
 
You didnt file, and I have lots of friends who work out there, and I did work for the IAM in summer of 2013 against the IBT raid, and one of my assignments were all the furloughed utility, I think I have a good grasp since these people are my friends.
 
52 years of blaming everyone else and not taking personal responsibility, keep trying, you got a year.

 

[Hackman]

swamt,
You spoke about the ability of SWA AMFA members to purchase retiree medical with SK time. I pointed out that the plan you have had, we were going to go to for our under 50 members only while maintaining for the 50 and older people the prefunding system with company match.
 
As you stated the SK payment plan is a viable alterative to the prefunding plan but now we have neither SK time funding or pre-funding. I would very much like to have been on the SK time funded plan. How do your members like it? I would like that option in our next CBA.

That plan only works if you have sick time Overdweeb. As a full on TWu lackey, you should remember we only accrue 5 days a year since the TWu got steAAmrolled in 2003. Worst in the industry. Then to add insult to injury, we only receive 10 IOD days reduced from 80 before an injured-on-duty TWu prisoner has to start burning sick time to keep a paycheck coming in while in recovery. 
 
Nice try, but your TWu plan isn't viable, because of massive record setting TWu concessions in 2003 that no other BK airline received.  Take your discriminatory TWu plan and stick it. Why should employees under 50 have to be screwed?  Not very union-like was it? Another reason I voted no in 2010, among many.

 

[bigjets]

Bottom line, in 2003 Del told us that AMFA would NEVER accept concessions without a SnapBack clause. Well shortly there after AMFA took concessions at UAL without SnapBack clause. Then when the IBT filed for an election AMFA was unprepared to file. Now AMFA national gives the appearance as if they could take or leave AA mechs. Not prepared for a card drive, and gives the impression that they are being outmaneuvered again by the twu.

2010 contract

The vote no know nothing's cost us $40k in cash alone and are still saying they were right. Kind of like Jeb bush can't admit the Iraq war was a mistake.

The know nothing's wanted the 2001 contract plus. At a time when all the other airlines had shed itself of pensions, OH, and retiree medical. But AA is going to give everything back plus. Nice thought but unrealistic.

The OH guys expect to do MRO work at line mech wages. 5 days a week with weekends off.

The know nothing's wanted everything and got nothing. Greed will get you every time.

It's unfortunate that the people that know the least speak the loudest, influencing the weak minded and causing apathy with the guys who just want to get paid a fair wage and go home after work. For you guys that think you are so righteous, look at the guys in the back of the room rolling their eyes when you talk of how unjustly you've been treated but yet still come to work year after year.

 

[Hackman]

I call BS on a 1,000 cards short.
 
There are around 1,000 Utility at US on layoff who have lifetime recall rights alone, there is no way in a months time they were able to contact them and get any Utility to sign cards.
 

That BS smell is coming from your soiled IAm panties, go change them and stay gone....

 

[Vortilon]

Owners? If the negotiations team is irrelevant then why show up? And the fact you attempt to blame others the Int'l did not make the videos. You did. So we "gave up" because why? Because you said you were going to push the company harder.
 
The 2010 TA had good items in it and instead of taking some of the stuff back we lost in 2003 you gambled on getting it all and then some. In the end we ended up with less. That's the facts.
 
Not to digress too far but hey, how's those cards coming?

 
Your posts only confirm your true feelings about the dues paying members.  I don't remember any vote no coalition making the rounds.  For me, one quick read through that POS contract you tout, and I was an immediate vote NO.  The divide and conquer the membership method - that the TWU attempted to use was enough to justify a no vote all by itself.  After 8 years without a real raise, and no snap backs for anything, and you thought that contract was fair?   All the guys that I spoke to were just as disappointed as I was, and that is going in with my standard "low expectations TWU outcome attitude".  The TWU Intl. had outdone my low expectations of them - to new lows.  No big surprize.

 

[Vortilon]

That BS smell is coming from your soiled IAm panties, go change them and stay gone....

 
Lifetime recall?  Yeah, time to get that more in line with the majority at LAA.  No need for lifetime recall rights.

 

[Vortilon]

Bottom line, in 2003 Del told us that AMFA would NEVER accept concessions without a SnapBack clause. Well shortly there after AMFA took concessions at UAL without SnapBack clause. Then when the IBT filed for an election AMFA was unprepared to file. Now AMFA national gives the appearance as if they could take or leave AA mechs. Not prepared for a card drive, and gives the impression that they are being outmaneuvered again by the twu.

2010 contract

The vote no know nothing's cost us $40k in cash alone and are still saying they were right. Kind of like Jeb bush can't admit the Iraq war was a mistake.

The know nothing's wanted the 2001 contract plus. At a time when all the other airlines had shed itself of pensions, OH, and retiree medical. But AA is going to give everything back plus. Nice thought but unrealistic.

The OH guys expect to do MRO work at line mech wages. 5 days a week with weekends off.

The know nothing's wanted everything and got nothing. Greed will get you every time.

It's unfortunate that the people that know the least speak the loudest, influencing the weak minded and causing apathy with the guys who just want to get paid a fair wage and go home after work. For you guys that think you are so righteous, look at the guys in the back of the room rolling their eyes when you talk of how unjustly you've been treated but yet still come to work year after year.

 
You are such a sheep.  Honestly, the only eye rolling I see is when the TWU promises to get em next time!