Do you?
This thread is titled "AMFA Organizing Drive to Replace Association"
You said "I don't give a crap about the TWU or IAM or AMFA"
Maybe just stirring the chit?
AMFA Organizing Drive to Replace Association
- Thread starter TWU informer
- Start date
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Do you?
This thread is titled "AMFA Organizing Drive to Replace Association"
You said "I don't give a crap about the TWU or IAM or AMFA"
Maybe just stirring the chit?
And that AA mechanic is a TWU/IAM/Asso. member who wants a change in his representational organization for a better class and craft representation as described in MIA's posting above. It IS NOT an AMFA person at all and I won't ever get a vote on AA's representation as indicated by you above.
Another correction is that the teamsters illegally forged those cards to get enough signed to turn it and 4 teamster organizers admitted to the forged cards and some even admitted to the actual forgeries, so NO, the teamsters DID not get enough cards as they admittedly forged them as well as pulled them all back from the NMB because they did not have nowhere near enough for the legit filing after pulling out all the forgeries.
And for some reason nobody was even punished for the forgeries (to my knowledge anyway).
The only thing you said above that is correct is the fact that the teamsters teamed up with the TWU/IAM as well as AA also, to illegally block AMFA from getting a "legal" vote for AMFA representation.
Keep trying your spin tactics, they all are old and baseless as usual...
AMFA@AA2020!!!
You don't have a clue as to what happened with the teamsters.They pulled the cards because they never wanted to get a vote. They were paid by the TWU to do what they did to stop AMFA from getting a vote. Why is it so hard for you to except that both times you guy got out played. It don't matter if it was illegal or not. The fact that NO ONE got in trouble for the forged cards, as you claim. Shows that you are full of crap.There is 6 days left for you guys to file the cards. why don't you just tell people the truth of why you are waiting til the last day. You and I both know you have failed to get enough cards.
Listen OAM,
I am only going to explain this once. The teamsters were in fact asked by the TWU to interfere as you did state correctly and as I said before too, as well as long ago when all this was going on. And your wrong, I was here and there when all this crap was going on and I also read where the 4 individuals being interviewed did admit to the forgeries, there are news articles covering this issue. YOU can take your own time to look back in all these threads and do YOUR own investigation as we here have all lived thru it and YOU have just recently came on these boards, so happy reading when you will be shocked how accurate we all have been about the illegal activities and blockage that have taken place by the industrial unions as well as the AA company and quite possibly some shinanagans by the NMB too. Not so much outplayed as it was illegal interference and direct collaborated by 5 different groups to block AMFA, pretty dam hard to win when all these entities are working so hard against the organizers to get AMFA in.
Another correction that you claim. I am not collecting any cards as I am not part of the grass roots effort at AA for a new representation for the mechanics and related. 6 days left? Where did you get that? Hey even if they do have 6 days as you claim, they can take all the time they are granted legally. Pretty sure they just wanna be sure they are prepared for anything that will come from all these entities that will once again work so hard to try and keep AMFA out, and you really gotta ask yourself, WHY? WHY are they all working so hard to keep AMFA out?? Especially the company, AA should just stay out of it, by AA does not want to lose the handy relationship they currently have with this asso always agreeing with EVERYTHING this company wants. It's time to get a real class and craft union to fully represent the mechanics and related at AA.
BTW there skippy, they had enough cards last time but got cheated out at the NMB by the company, teamsters, TWU,IAM,Asso working together so that the organizers were cheated out of a legit amount of time to get the cards to them. You will see at least a request to file soon IMO.
AMFA@AA2020!!!
Don't forget to vote if you have not already America...
AMFA didn't get cheated. You guys got out smarted. If you got cheated. You should took it to the courts. But you didn't because you knew you would lose. I cant wait to see what excuse you will have in the next few weeks. Just man up and understand that if EVERYONE is against you. Its because you don't know how to play the game.
AMFAinMIAMI
Veteran
OAM; You are wasting your time going back and forth with SWAMT, he does not work for AA. just puts his 2 cents in to defend AMFA and how AMFA works and would like for us here to get the same representation. You have NO Real knowledge of what went down either with the IBT and the NMB other than second hand BS from the floor. You don't know how many cards we have had each time we have conducted a drive to remove the TWU.
Even with the Todd video when he met with the IBT, at the pancake house NO one for sure can say what happened or what was discussed. It's all speculation. The Current title 2 rep was also a big IBT guy until he felt they lied and he then signed a card. You are correct it's a Big Game with lots of Money involved.
You are correct that it has been alot harder this time with CV19 and everything that comes with that. But we do feel we have sufficient amount of cards to bring to the NMB to get an VOTE. What happens with all the resistance from AA, the TWU/IAM Association, and AFLCIO we will see. Our database is better prepared and due to the freedom of info act we have the last filing and previous filing paperwork from NMB.
So for you to say we / AMFA screwed up at any time you have no idea what you are talking about. We the main organizers can only do so much if the membership here at AA meaning the represented TWU guys don't give us an overwhelming number of cards its on them. Then all of you can whine about the ASSociation or TWU forever. It will be on ALL Of YOU. WE can say we tried to make a change.
When the membership doesn't care about anything but IGM and the C/S policy it's not really a Union shop environment anyway. So you would be correct the name on the Union hall makes NO difference. If there is a change and YOU put back the same scammers to run the Local here in MIA then that is ALL on YOU.
Maybe there will be some guys who will take a chance to change the cycle of BS.
WHY don't you do that, step up get involved?
Or are you one of those who just doesn't care and just wants to come in or not and TAKE what the company and the UNION give you. Your career and its future on YOU. No matter how much time you have with AA or what time you have left at some time you must of cared. What happened to make YOU feel the way you do NOW. Wasn't it better at some point during your aviation career?
When AMFA National decides to file the cards is when it will get done, just filing is the first step, then the verification of cards to lists, ( AA's -TWU/IAM -OURS )
if and when that gets completed a VOTE or NOT. This will get done in Months so if there is a VOTE it will happen around FEB, I am guessing with the election and the Holidays soon upon us.
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IF there is ever a vote. I will vote for AMFA. I keep saying there wont be one, because I know that no one cares. You hit the nail on the head. The only thing that AA guys care about is CS and Overtime. That is what pays the bills. I would NEVER waste my time trying to change things that no one wants to change. You spent all of your time trying to get people to go to AMFA. But what you don't get is AMFA is also a business. The more members the more money. Northwest guys and United guys that I know all have negative stuff that they didn't like about AMFA. You never had a positive thing to say in all the years you worked at Miami. I come to work do my job. I Take the Money and make my family safe and secure. NOTHING else matters. Your buddy SWAAMT Is the same person as Gary Petterson. He don't have a damn thing to do with AA. but he comes on this site and act like he knows everything. He is part of the problem with AMFA. They need to understand that in order to win. You have to get the NMB on your side. You also have to have the AFL_CIO on your side because they pay off all the judges and the NMB. They are all crooks and so is the Government. REP and DEM. Back in the Day with the MOB ran the Unions. That was the last time we had any real POWER. We took baseball bats and got what we wanted and the fear of that is what made UNION powerful. Now its all about the MONEY. You pay for what you want and that is the only way you will get anything. AMFA will never beat these guys. They have way more money and you cant out smart MONEY. I use to HATE the IGM guys. Now I am their age. I am one of THEM.
At least your keeping an open mind about it. There is a lot of us that only hope there is a vote. Cannot say which way it will go, but by golly, you would think, especially by now that the members has had enough.
I respect your thoughts on working so hard when most don't care and gave up long ago. I also respect anyway you wish to vote. You say you will vote for AMFA, and I believe that would be a vote against the asso as you have said before. With all that in mind I would like to ask you a question; Did you sign an AMFA card to help try and get an election? I understand you don't directly want AMFA but you did say you would vote so was wondering if you filled a card out and turned it in?? Just curious.
I don't mind telling you that I have signed a card every time there has been a drive. I also don't mind telling you that the IAM/TWU ASS. Is a joke and needs to go. I also have been around a lot longer than probably every guy on this forum. If AMFA want to ever be taken serious by the NMB or Any Major Airline. They need to understand that you can fight everyone and expect to win. What happen at NWA and United was because you guys tried to fight everyone. Meaning the Airlines, the other Unions and The NMB. They are all the same people. That is the problem and as long as your top people don't understand that. You will NEVER get AA or Keep any Large Airlines. That is ALL I am saying.
Thx for info. I was kinda hoping you were gonna say no, that you did not fill out a card. My reasoning for that wish was to show the "silent supporters" kind of in the way the silent supporters really showed up in 2016 (sorry, not trying to get political at all just using it as an example only) there are folks out there that do not make it public that they support and will vote for AMFA when the time comes, and yes, the hardest part is to get that time to come. So when the time comes I am hoping for more support coming in than cards that came in.
Yes this TWU/IAM/Asso does need to go. Matter fact as I have said long ago, I would have supported any other Class and craft union that the AA'ers wanted to bring in. It was more of a no brainer going with AMFA as they were already established, up and running where as one of the other two would have been started from the ground up and the other C&C union was from out of USA (England I think) There may very well be others, just not sure if they are Aircraft Mechanic and Related specific.
I wish you guys very much luck in your efforts to get a class and craft union in at AA, hopefully we will see soon an announcement of a filing soon...
AMFA@AA2020!
AMFAinMIAMI
Veteran
NATIONAL MEDIATION BOARD
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20572
42 NMB No. 20
CASE NOs. R-7422; R-7423 and R-7424 (FILE NO. CR-7131) FINDINGS UPON INVESTIGATION- DETERMINATION OF CERTIFICATION
May 19, 2015
http://www.amfa-aa.com/pdf/42_NMB_No20.pdf
CONCLUSION:
The Board finds that the TWU/IAM Mechanics Association is the certified representative of the Mechanics and Related Employees craft or class at the New American and that certification hereinafter will be referred to as the certification in NMB Case No. R-7422.
TWU’s certification in NMB Case No. R-6872
AND ARE EXTINGUISHED
IAM’s Certification in NMB Case No. R-4593
Extinguishment is the destruction of a right or contract.
WHAT PART OF THE TWU AND IAM WERE DECERTIFIED DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?
STOP HANGING ONTO SOMETHING THAT NO LONGER EXIST? WE ARE GOING TO FILE THE CARDS WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT.
SIGN AN AMFA CARD
VOTE FOR AMFA.
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20572
42 NMB No. 20
CASE NOs. R-7422; R-7423 and R-7424 (FILE NO. CR-7131) FINDINGS UPON INVESTIGATION- DETERMINATION OF CERTIFICATION
May 19, 2015
http://www.amfa-aa.com/pdf/42_NMB_No20.pdf
CONCLUSION:
The Board finds that the TWU/IAM Mechanics Association is the certified representative of the Mechanics and Related Employees craft or class at the New American and that certification hereinafter will be referred to as the certification in NMB Case No. R-7422.
TWU’s certification in NMB Case No. R-6872
AND ARE EXTINGUISHED
IAM’s Certification in NMB Case No. R-4593
Extinguishment is the destruction of a right or contract.
WHAT PART OF THE TWU AND IAM WERE DECERTIFIED DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?
STOP HANGING ONTO SOMETHING THAT NO LONGER EXIST? WE ARE GOING TO FILE THE CARDS WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT.
SIGN AN AMFA CARD
VOTE FOR AMFA.
AMFAinMIAMI
Veteran
Open Letter to IAM from Member Larry Ocheltree
AMFA is the only viable choice based on track record, expertise and accessibility.
This letter is to ask all my IAM colleagues to not be taken in by the outright lies that are being spread to scare you into voting for this train wreck called the TWU/IAM Mechanics Association.
For background, when our unions were merged in response to the AA/U.S. Air merger, membership had no say in whether we wanted this partnership. We were forced to accept it with the assumption being that 30,000 employees could force the company to concede into a better contract. Since the signing of the agreement, we’ve learned how the company got the best of the Association with combined rules that are outrageous. These rules apply to topics such as job loss, seniority, the Javits list, losing bumping rights and overtime. Simply put, the list is getting bigger every day.
While it’s true we temporarily benefited from the Association when our pay was increased to match TWU’s, the company has since closed maintenance stations while opening Fleet Service stations. I am happy Fleet Service has new stations opening, but was it necessary to once again strip away more jobs from Mechanic and Related employees to promote another craft and class? For several decades, it has been the industrial union position that our jobs were not lost but have remained in the union under Fleet Service, bringing in dues revenue. I’ve heard throughout the system from all groups that regardless of how you feel about IAM or TWU, the Association between them is not working and needs to change.
IAM is not an option without decertifying the current Association agreement, and the same goes for TWU. Even though the Teamsters are not a member of the AFL-CIO, they have an agreement to not petition for representation with our group, and they have already burned their bridges with the AA group and would never be certified.
AMFA is the only viable choice based on track record, expertise and accessibility. The industrial unions have been very successful in painting a bleak picture of AMFA but most of what has been said is untrue, unfounded and simply a scare tactic designed to protect their substandard representation. The facts are that AMFA has a track record of being a very professional union that specializes in representing only the Mechanic and Related workgroups. They treat all the functions within Mechanic and Related with equal importance, so if you’re in the automotive, facilities, cabin cleaners, training, sim tech planners, moc, line, heavy, you can expect your grievances to be aggressively addressed and your contract enforced. AMFA is the only union committed to transparency during negotiations, transparency that would have prevented the tradeoff of our benefits to other groups, which we see happening now. Another important AMFA difference is that if an issue comes up without a contract change submitted, the members are able to have a shop specialist go to the negotiations to bring the issue to the table to be addressed. Currently we have nothing like this, and we are doing the same old thing I have seen for 35 years, while the companies use modern negotiating tactics to crush us.
We need to take back control of our careers and not be bullied into accepting what our union decides we are to have. We need one union uniting our power, not two fighting each other instead of management. We need to stop working for the Association and have AMFA work for us.
Thank you,
Larry Ocheltree
Aircraft Mechanic — American Airlines
AMFA is the only viable choice based on track record, expertise and accessibility.
This letter is to ask all my IAM colleagues to not be taken in by the outright lies that are being spread to scare you into voting for this train wreck called the TWU/IAM Mechanics Association.
For background, when our unions were merged in response to the AA/U.S. Air merger, membership had no say in whether we wanted this partnership. We were forced to accept it with the assumption being that 30,000 employees could force the company to concede into a better contract. Since the signing of the agreement, we’ve learned how the company got the best of the Association with combined rules that are outrageous. These rules apply to topics such as job loss, seniority, the Javits list, losing bumping rights and overtime. Simply put, the list is getting bigger every day.
While it’s true we temporarily benefited from the Association when our pay was increased to match TWU’s, the company has since closed maintenance stations while opening Fleet Service stations. I am happy Fleet Service has new stations opening, but was it necessary to once again strip away more jobs from Mechanic and Related employees to promote another craft and class? For several decades, it has been the industrial union position that our jobs were not lost but have remained in the union under Fleet Service, bringing in dues revenue. I’ve heard throughout the system from all groups that regardless of how you feel about IAM or TWU, the Association between them is not working and needs to change.
IAM is not an option without decertifying the current Association agreement, and the same goes for TWU. Even though the Teamsters are not a member of the AFL-CIO, they have an agreement to not petition for representation with our group, and they have already burned their bridges with the AA group and would never be certified.
AMFA is the only viable choice based on track record, expertise and accessibility. The industrial unions have been very successful in painting a bleak picture of AMFA but most of what has been said is untrue, unfounded and simply a scare tactic designed to protect their substandard representation. The facts are that AMFA has a track record of being a very professional union that specializes in representing only the Mechanic and Related workgroups. They treat all the functions within Mechanic and Related with equal importance, so if you’re in the automotive, facilities, cabin cleaners, training, sim tech planners, moc, line, heavy, you can expect your grievances to be aggressively addressed and your contract enforced. AMFA is the only union committed to transparency during negotiations, transparency that would have prevented the tradeoff of our benefits to other groups, which we see happening now. Another important AMFA difference is that if an issue comes up without a contract change submitted, the members are able to have a shop specialist go to the negotiations to bring the issue to the table to be addressed. Currently we have nothing like this, and we are doing the same old thing I have seen for 35 years, while the companies use modern negotiating tactics to crush us.
We need to take back control of our careers and not be bullied into accepting what our union decides we are to have. We need one union uniting our power, not two fighting each other instead of management. We need to stop working for the Association and have AMFA work for us.
Thank you,
Larry Ocheltree
Aircraft Mechanic — American Airlines
La Li Lu Le Lo
Veteran
- May 29, 2010
- 7,376
- 2,666
So this is how you perceive the IAM pension? A waste? Isn't this one of the inconsistencies y'all cite when saying the IAM AMT's made out better off? And y'all think that AA, during a pandemic, is going to listen to AMFA when they demand the same 401% to IAM mechanics whose pension contributions will full stop if your raid succeeds? Boy this is spreading like wildfire! You need to fire the welder handling your PR!
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