that makes sense. i can understand all of your points. except maybe the used car salesman analogy. if you have questions i would recommend messaging amfain miami or southwest. you could message me i will try to find out the answers for you nut southwest lives amafa and amfain miami seems very knowledgeable. i will add that right around the time that southwest got their latest contract there was another poster on this board that was a hard core teamsters supporter. after southwest got their contract he did admit publicly that he was happy with the contract they got and had rethought his support for the teamsters. and true to his word he did retire from this board.
AMFA Organizing Drive to Replace Association
- Thread starter TWU informer
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AMFAinMIAMI
Veteran
Thunderdome;
I have not read which of the related groups you belong too. I can say that planners as well as others in the related groups have been approached to sign cards and have signed here in MIA.
Not every one that is/has collected cards around the system knows which groups in total belong to the M&R group. Some even don't consider that title 2 guys here at AA even belong. That is a failure on their part as well as areas main organizer. As I said in a previous post go to AMFA Natl. or to AMFA local 14 which represents Alaska, ask them some of the questions you need answered. I am sure SWAMT can answer what happens with your RELATED Group SWA.
Without ever being represented by AMFA how can we give you the BAD. All I know from my from experience is with the TWU and IAM. We the main organizers have gone to many groups that are and will be represented MANY times only to be told GO AWAY. After that happen so many times going back to those groups is hard. Why the TWU or IAM have NOT Forced the issue with some of these groups to pay union dues and become members that is a question only they can answer. On the LUS side you have IAM represented employees that LAA does not have on the TWU side. That will ALL go away if the membership votes in AMFA. If your group is not in your opinion represented the way you want then maybe it would be something you could do to change that by getting involved.
I have not read which of the related groups you belong too. I can say that planners as well as others in the related groups have been approached to sign cards and have signed here in MIA.
Not every one that is/has collected cards around the system knows which groups in total belong to the M&R group. Some even don't consider that title 2 guys here at AA even belong. That is a failure on their part as well as areas main organizer. As I said in a previous post go to AMFA Natl. or to AMFA local 14 which represents Alaska, ask them some of the questions you need answered. I am sure SWAMT can answer what happens with your RELATED Group SWA.
Without ever being represented by AMFA how can we give you the BAD. All I know from my from experience is with the TWU and IAM. We the main organizers have gone to many groups that are and will be represented MANY times only to be told GO AWAY. After that happen so many times going back to those groups is hard. Why the TWU or IAM have NOT Forced the issue with some of these groups to pay union dues and become members that is a question only they can answer. On the LUS side you have IAM represented employees that LAA does not have on the TWU side. That will ALL go away if the membership votes in AMFA. If your group is not in your opinion represented the way you want then maybe it would be something you could do to change that by getting involved.
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It's just how I look at it. They "benefit" by my vote. Where as with SWAMT, he doesn't benefit and he lives with how AMFA actually operates. However the Vote goes, that's the way it goes. I didn't vote for the current JCBA, but it passed, so it is what it is.
To be honest, I am being careful to not divulge exactly what work group I am in, because I really don't want to be bothered by the fringe groups on either side. I see and will state that their are issues on both sides. I voted NO for the JCBA because I think their are portions in the contract that shouldn't be their, including the TWU members not having the option to use the "LUS" medical. To me that's wrong. There are other reasons I voted no, but that is one.
Regarding AMFA, if I read their constitution correctly, all members pay 2 x an hourly rate. That means for me, I am going to be paying about $30 more a month in Union Dues. Will that extra money out of my pocket provide me something that IAM does not? I don't know the answer to that. That's why I ask questions.
I understand the tiredness of repeatedly being told NO and to GO AWAY. And that very well could have happen in this case. I know people that use to work in the office, that really only were in the Union because they "had" to be, and they may have been that way to organizers in the past.
AMFAinMIAMI
Veteran
Thunderdome;
The only benefit we the organizers get from you or would of gotten from you was the chance to get a VOTE. I say that because by you signing a card gave us and YOU a chance to VOTE. If you didn't sign a card, and wondered why No one asked you did you know you were part of the M&R group and if you wanted a voice, then you should of asked for a card. How you vote is your own personal thing. I ask one more question, did you vote at all for or against this JCBA? It passed because of the Money, most didn't even read the contract before they voted. It has always been that way on the TWU side.
AMFAinMIAMI
Veteran
I voted NO for the JCBA. Yes money was part of it, but I think the Pandemic was a bigger part. Things are just shut down and NO ONE knew what the future held. It went in the companies favor I think with the timing. No one knew what the future held for anyone, including out side of this discussion, i.e. lock downs, no restaurant's, etc.
Yes I pay less than 2x base rate. The Lodge I am in has a set rate. Regardless of your pay, everyone pays the same dollar amount every month.
Yes I pay less than 2x base rate. The Lodge I am in has a set rate. Regardless of your pay, everyone pays the same dollar amount every month.
1AA
Veteran
Well put Thunderdome. I thought that was why you were reaching out. I understand your car salesman feelings. I too was a bit "AMFA's" the only answer to our problems when we first started our drive to fire the teamsters. guys that really knew me pulled me to the side and explained that the way I was approaching and discussing AMFA's ways to some were a put off as I was thought of by some as AMFA does nothing wrong. This opened my eyes, as well as my thoughts on how would I look at it, and yes they were correct some times I came across too harsh or excited and it would overwhelm people who are just trying to seek info for an educated decision. from then on I just explain how it works and what AMFA does and doesn't do with evidence, proof or backing so not to come across as a know it all, when you can show them what you are talking about or explaining they will pipe up and listen even more. Sorry for that dribble before answering your questions, but I thought I would start off with my experiences when I helped to bring AMFA in at my carrier.
Ok. You say you are in the "and Related" group, what group please? Title? Tell me your group and I can tell you if your group is represented as of yet.
Yes, AMFA has done well with getting the Supplemental Insurance to their members.
We have Appearance Techs, FM, MC, Instructors and more but not off top of my head.
Whatever your group is as long as your group falls under the NMB's description of "and Related" you would be represented if a vote passes for AMFA representation. AMFA here at SWA has representatives from each of our "and Related" groups that have a voice at the nego tables. Matter fact AMFA has a many times brought in employees from those groups at the nego table to help nego language to cover their group. These groups are just as represented as anyone in the union including the mechanics, I say this because it is considered a Mechanic's Class and Craft Union, but if the NMB puts your group within the Class and Craft your group will be just as represented as all within AMFA.
I personally witnesses the Lawyers, nego cmte and AMFA National officers call on experts from other groups to come in and assist when nego for their groups, the same should happen at AA for you guys when the time comes. 2 of our groups were very concern, just as you are, they are Facilities Maint. (FM's), and Maint. control (MC) after they were called into nego's to do their contract language in writing they were blown away at how much representation they were given by AMFA. Basically 2-3 long tenure employees form these groups came in and assisted in getting their contract language concerning their group into their own contracts. Each different group has their own contract or contract language, they are not all bunched up into a one fits all.
Hope this is helpful, give your title and or group and what you do at work and we can discuss further.
Again i do understand you reaching out to me as an already represented AMFA member, I did the same with 6 NWA mechanics back in the day just before we made the move over to AMFA, and I'm not kidding you here, we all said we should have done this years ago. It is nite and day difference. The only guys that were against the AMFA after a while of being here were the die hard teamsters/TWU supporters that were so but hurt they were just trying to get AMFA out, but now, even 2 very, very hard core X-teamsters are now saying they should have done it sooner as they sit back and watch how much different it really is and how transparent AMFA is to it's members.
Thunderdome, got to amfanational.com and look at all the latest updates on how transparent they are. They won't even sign those disclosure notices because they will not swear to the co. that they will not share with the members. Can't tell you how many times the teamsters/TWU/IAM have always signed those agreements and kept all info from the members, AMFA does not do that when it comes to concessions discussions.
Forgive me for jumping in as you were addressing someone else, but I wanted to give you some examples that will answer a question you asked, you basically asked what you will get with AMFA that the IAM don't get you, (am I correct?) for your dues increasing by about $30 bucks per month? I will list some and I may even forget or leave something out, if I do AIM,DFW or anyone pls correct me:
1. You get a full transparent representative. The membership is fully aware of everything that goes on at the table, in meetings, what is said by whom, why and all the details, just look at AMFA's updates during nego's that's a huge difference.
2. ALL AMFA National Officers are voted on by the entire membership.
3. ALL Local Officers are also voted on by all members from that Local.
4. Both National as well as Local Officers can be recalled (fired if ya will) from their position by the membership. This is in the constitution in writing.
5. YOU as a member can in fact sit in on nego's live as they happen. That's right, you can "observe" live nego's between the union and company and see in person what really goes on. Just this alone stopped all lies misinformation and made up stories by the co. rumors if ya will. And you can sign up for nego observation as many times as you wish.
6. With AMFA the membership will control everything that goes on from how much the locals can spend without a membership vote to how much you will pay in union dues-YOU will never get that with any other union period. teamsters forced us to 3 times pay then backed off to 2.5.
7. AMFA members will vote on all cmte members within AMFA no appointees unless there is a vacated opening and AMFA National or AMFA local Officers would need to appoint a temp person to keep things going and then they would send out notices for folks to run for that position and be voted on by the membership, that way they are not appointed to a perm position
8. AMFA is the #1 Mechanic Class and Craft union that the fed gov called on to discuss bills and new law to help the mechanics and related groups as well as safety, outsourcing laws, drug testing etc... it's all on the AMFA National web site.
9. Some folks will get bothered or overwhelmed how much the members will control, vote and supervise within their union, but that is exactly how AMFA is ran, by the members.
10. AMFA also has a huge legislative presence in DC and is in constant contact with members of Congress and the House, leaders of the transportation dept and leaders in the aviation district.
I will stop at 10, there may be even more but I think 10 is a great start for a lousy $30 bucks more per month, money well spent on YOUR future.
Thunderdome; PM me with your group, and I will answer a simple Yes or No if they are represented, I assure you I will not share even with the AA Organizers as your request.
These "and Related" groups have been drilled into their heads over the years that AMFA will not represent them, that AMFA will turn their backs blah, blah blah. Not true at all, it's all made up hogwash as our groups have personally experienced at the nego table, in meetings with the company, in AMFA reaching out to them for assistance and dialog. Yes I too was turned away from their groups when approach on my own to explain AMFA's internals, shortly after hearing they are collecting record cards so quick an election was going to happen, they all of a sudden demanded that they get info from me and other AMFA organizers. We get it, we understand, is it frustrating (hell yes) but, you gotta stay professional, stay calm and just explain away no matter how many times it takes. They will call another organizer in ask same questions to see if anyone is lying and to compare their answers to the other guys. I am sure your dedicated organizers know what I am talking about.
Sorry AIM and DFW for jumping in, as you guys know, that's just me, so my appology...
1AA
Veteran
In other airline mechanic contract news, UAL mechs are getting a 7 percent raise as of tomorrow based on a contract LOA industry reset. Along with a scheduled contract 1 percent raise in december.
If you were TWU represented, you'd already be paying 2x your base rate a month in dues. More inequalities in the Ass.
Topcat187
Senior
- Jun 25, 2012
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