AMFA Organizing Drive to Replace Association

[Kev3188]

We even had IAM ramp and agents and flight attendants walking our line because we were very tight knit group here.

This happened in a few places. I wish it got talked about more...

 

[swamt]

Happened at DFW in Dallas. A many from other unions on property came in groups at different times to walk with them.

The one union that would not cross the picket lines were the teamster truckers, they refused to deliver the goods to NWA by truck when the picket lines were occupied by strikers. Trucks were seen turning around and leaving.

 

[Old Azz Mechanic]

I have to call BS on all the talk of how good you guys had it doing the strike. You still lost your job in the end game. So what did AMFA do about that. Why is it so hard to admit that AMFA has failed more times that any other Union.

 

[Old Azz Mechanic]

Remember when teamsters filed with NMB and AA was right there with a list in a matter of hours. Then teamsters pulled out leaving us with the association. Not to mention twu and AA kept us in a concession contract for 17 years.

seems like there’s a conspiracy theory in there someplace.

Its called getting OUT PLAYED..

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

I have to call BS on all the talk of how good you guys had it doing (during) the strike. You still lost your job in the end game. So what did AMFA do about that. Why is it so hard to admit that AMFA has failed more times that any other Union.

OAM:

I will have to call BS on that one.

CAL - IAM - Failure
EAL - IAM - Failure
UAL - IAM - Failure
TWA - IAM - Failure
NWA - IAM - Failure
US Airways - IAM -Failure

All of these carriers were IAM represented carriers all of them went BK and lost sooooo many IAM Union jobs. I guess you have forgotten the past.
I guess you will have to admit that the IAM has lost the most. NOT AMFA..

TWU - PanAm - Failure
TWU - AA - Decertified
USAir - IAM - Decertified

In 2003 we had 18k M&R union workers Just How Many do we Have NOW? On the LAA side? If I remember it's about 9K so that's about a 50% loss of Union jobs
along with how many concessions along the way. I call that a Failure, wouldn't You?

If the TWU was so great maybe I could remember others from the past that the TWU represented.
Maybe some here can recall who represented Alleghany, Piedmont, Alaska, SWA, Mohawk before they went out of business or changed Unions

I can also tell you that the AA mechanics walked the picket line with the NWA guys out at LAX, Pilots/ F/A /Fleet crossed AMFA's Picket Line and still they lost their jobs as well as Becoming SCABS. You have bragged how well the TWU has done to save jobs and the airline but at what cost? How many 10s of Thousands of Dollars has each TWU member lost due to the TWU's Bending Over.? By bending over the TWU lowered the bar each time and set the industry back years. To this day I am sure you can say what you have lost and NOT recovered since the 2001 contract.

 

[Kev3188]

Happened at DFW in Dallas. A many from other unions on property came in groups at different times to walk with them.

The one union that would not cross the picket lines were the teamster truckers, they refused to deliver the goods to NWA by truck when the picket lines were occupied by strikers. Trucks were seen turning around and leaving.

In my station, the ramp parked in the air freight lot. The IAM committeemen told the AMT's if they even just put one picket there, no one would cross (we had all agreed). We also knew most of the regular truckers, and they had agreed to turn around as well. Heck, the company had planned on this happening, and posted security goons there waiting for it.

But, the AMFA committee chose to instead have everyone at the terminal. later, they posted one AMT by the freeway exits (about 2miles away).

IMO, it was a fatal error.

I can also tell you that the AA mechanics walked the picket line with the NWA guys out at LAX, Pilots/ F/A /Fleet crossed AMFA's Picket Line and still they lost their jobs as well

Who lost their jobs?

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Who lost their jobs?

The employees at NWA, lost jobs not all were kept by Delta, when they took over.

 

[swamt]

Went to the NMB site to read up on any new news and found these weekly updates:

Weekly Activity Report November 16, 2020 – November 20, 2020




Weekly Activity Report November 16, 2020 – November 20, 2020 MEDIATION/ADR New Dockets: Case # Carrier Org. Craft/class Mediator(s) GM-182 Bristow OPEIU Mechanics Tosi Ratifications: None Cooling Off Periods/Strike Activity: None REPRESENTATION New Applications: Case/File #/Docket Date Carrier Org. Approx. No. of Emp. – Craft or Class Investigator R-7557 November 16, 2020 American Read More

After clicking on "Read More" found the weekly Report on AMFA's Case #R-7557:

Weekly Activity Report
November 16, 2020 – November 20, 2020



MEDIATION/ADR
New Dockets:

Case # Carrier Org. Craft/class Mediator(s)
GM-182 Bristow OPEIU Mechanics Tosi
Ratifications: None
Cooling Off Periods/Strike Activity: None



REPRESENTATION
New Applications:

Case/File #/Docket Date Carrier Org. Approx. No. of Emp. – Craft or Class Investigator
R-7557


November 16, 2020

American Airlines AMFA/TWU-IAM Mechanics Association 12,821 – Mechanics and Related Employees Bautista
Ballot Instructions Mailed: None
Elections Underway: None
Cases Closed: None
Interference Cases: None



ARBITRATION (estimates)
Please click on the link below to view open and closed Arbitration cases.
NMB Open/Closed Report

I do believe this Mon the 30th is the deadline set by NMB for AA to get the eligibility list as well as the signatures samples to the NMB investigator so maybe we will get another update after or on Mon.

Food for thought here AIM; You listed approx 9K (Although you did say on the LAA side) where the NMB has it listed at approx. 12,821. I assume the higher number is including US mechanic and related at approx 3,800+.
Do these numbers seem correct to you all? Just another eye opener on how many cards had to be collected, verified, sorted, and sent to AMFA so they can file for e representational election with the NMB. Mind boggling to say the least. Another great job to all the Organizers and volunteers in your grass roots efforts.
Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving Day and weekend!!! Stay safe and healthy out there folks...

 

[swamt]

In my station, the ramp parked in the air freight lot. The IAM committeemen told the AMT's if they even just put one picket there, no one would cross (we had all agreed). We also knew most of the regular truckers, and they had agreed to turn around as well. Heck, the company had planned on this happening, and posted security goons there waiting for it.

But, the AMFA committee chose to instead have everyone at the terminal. later, they posted one AMT by the freeway exits (about 2miles away).

IMO, it was a fatal error.



Who lost their jobs?

I would agree that it was an error. They should have filed the correct request for more than one location. Whenever we filed for our info picket lines at the airport they simply asked us how many and what locations. So we covered them all that were allowed. So yes I agree that was a fatal error on their part.
And Kev., another failure IMO was the late timing of the start of said strike. They should have started as soon as they knew that NWA was training the scabs BEFORE they were trained so that they couldn't throw them out there already prepared and trained.
Not sure if Lineguy would agree with me, as he lived thru it, but just my opinion, although I was outside looking in so maybe I am wrong on that one.

 

[Old Azz Mechanic]

OAM:

I will have to call BS on that one.

CAL - IAM - Failure
EAL - IAM - Failure
UAL - IAM - Failure
TWA - IAM - Failure
NWA - IAM - Failure
US Airways - IAM -Failure

All of these carriers were IAM represented carriers all of them went BK and lost sooooo many IAM Union jobs. I guess you have forgotten the past.
I guess you will have to admit that the IAM has lost the most. NOT AMFA..

TWU - PanAm - Failure
TWU - AA - Decertified
USAir - IAM - Decertified

In 2003 we had 18k M&R union workers Just How Many do we Have NOW? On the LAA side? If I remember it's about 9K so that's about a 50% loss of Union jobs
along with how many concessions along the way. I call that a Failure, wouldn't You?

If the TWU was so great maybe I could remember others from the past that the TWU represented.
Maybe some here can recall who represented Alleghany, Piedmont, Alaska, SWA, Mohawk before they went out of business or changed Unions

I can also tell you that the AA mechanics walked the picket line with the NWA guys out at LAX, Pilots/ F/A /Fleet crossed AMFA's Picket Line and still they lost their jobs as well as Becoming SCABS. You have bragged how well the TWU has done to save jobs and the airline but at what cost? How many 10s of Thousands of Dollars has each TWU member lost due to the TWU's Bending Over.? By bending over the TWU lowered the bar each time and set the industry back years. To this day I am sure you can say what you have lost and NOT recovered since the 2001 contract.

You will NEVER get it. I have NEVER missed a Pay check in over 38 years at AA with TWU. Do they suck in lot of other ways YES. But the FACTS is real. Can you say the same. Can any AMFA union member say the same NO. Its all about the Money. Nothing else matters. The only reason I am for Voting AMFA in is because I do like the ideal of a all Mechanic Union. But the fact that AMFA has a problem with getting and keeping large airlines is real. No matter how much you try to cover it up. This is a FACT.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

You will NEVER get it. I have NEVER missed a Pay check in over 38 years at AA with TWU. Do they suck in lot of other ways YES. But the FACTS is real. Can you say the same. Can any AMFA union member say the same NO. Its all about the Money. Nothing else matters. The only reason I am for Voting AMFA in is because I do like the ideal of a all Mechanic Union. But the fact that AMFA has a problem with getting and keeping large airlines is real. No matter how much you try to cover it up. This is a FACT.

OAM:

You made a statement as if it was a FACT, AMFA has failed more than any other union I called BS on you and showed you that the IAM has Failed more than any other union and has lost more members than any other union in the industry. Large or small carriers. With the LUS guys that is the last M&R group the IAM reresents, in the airline industry. If AA employees switch to AMFA the TWU will NOT represent any M&R work group any more either. The TWU will have the same thing, NOT able to keep a Large carrier since the last was PanAM other than AA. The IAM will always have that record of losing the most, just go back and look at ALL the carriers I listed, they have lost. Every one of them a LARGE CARRIER. That FACT is REAL...

You keep bringing up how you have NOT missed a paycheck. HOW much MONEY $$$ have you lost in concessions with the TWU? How many Holidays,
sick days, pension vesting year, hourly rate, weeks of vacation, shift differential and more? The TWU you brag about has given up the MOST concessions in my 41 yrs in the industry than anyone. What I am saying is it's time to try something different. Time for the bargaining unit that represents the M&R work group at AA to STOP bending over and taking. The International Officers did not take the cuts you have for 38 yrs. Even their secretaries made more than YOU. NOW that is a REAL SHAME don't you think?????

 

[Kev3188]

The employees at NWA, lost jobs not all were kept by Delta, when they took over.

That's not correct.

I would agree that it was an error. They should have filed the correct request for more than one location. Whenever we filed for our info picket lines at the airport they simply asked us how many and what locations. So we covered them all that were allowed. So yes I agree that was a fatal error on their part.
And Kev., another failure IMO was the late timing of the start of said strike. They should have started as soon as they knew that NWA was training the scabs BEFORE they were trained so that they couldn't throw them out there already prepared and trained.
Not sure if Lineguy would agree with me, as he lived thru it, but just my opinion, although I was outside looking in so maybe I am wrong on that one.

I agree on both of those points. Hindsight's 20/20, I guess...

 

[dfw gen]

OAM:

You made a statement as if it was a FACT, AMFA has failed more than any other union I called BS on you and showed you that the IAM has Failed more than any other union and has lost more members than any other union in the industry. Large or small carriers. With the LUS guys that is the last M&R group the IAM reresents, in the airline industry. If AA employees switch to AMFA the TWU will NOT represent any M&R work group any more either. The TWU will have the same thing, NOT able to keep a Large carrier since the last was PanAM other than AA. The IAM will always have that record of losing the most, just go back and look at ALL the carriers I listed, they have lost. Every one of them a LARGE CARRIER. That FACT is REAL...

You keep bringing up how you have NOT missed a paycheck. HOW much MONEY $$$ have you lost in concessions with the TWU? How many Holidays,
sick days, pension vesting year, hourly rate, weeks of vacation, shift differential and more? The TWU you brag about has given up the MOST concessions in my 41 yrs in the industry than anyone. What I am saying is it's time to try something different. Time for the bargaining unit that represents the M&R work group at AA to STOP bending over and taking. The International Officers did not take the cuts you have for 38 yrs. Even their secretaries made more than YOU. NOW that is a REAL SHAME don't you think?????

your wasting your time with old azz. hes a plant from the association just trying to sow discontent

 

[swamt]

your wasting your time with old azz. hes a plant from the association just trying to sow discontent

I would disagree that AIM is wasting his time. At this point and time in the AA'ers request for a representational vote, it is most critical to answer all misinformation and wrong info that is being spread. The more he sends out misinformation the more he needs to be "proven" and "shown" evidence how far off he really is. AIM is doing just that. AIM is actually proving OAM wrong every time so far when he made his claims that AMFA lost the most members and the most carriers in the industry. Between the TWU, IAM, and the teamsters all 3 have lost the most members as well as the most carriers within the airline industry, by far.
There are many of folks out there just like him and Thunderdome that are wanting to collect more data before making that very important decision to vote for or against AMFA should the chance come from the NMB. There are also plenty of fence sitters out there that will still have to make a choice. Now that it appears thus far, that there will more than likely be an election, more and more folks are wanting more detailed info and work thru all the misinformation, the lies, the flat out false and made up stories about AMFA. The scare tactics that have started already from the TWU/IAM/Asso. so far needs to be addressed each and every time too.
I know dfw gen, it does get old, but, can't stop now with the cards delivered and awaiting for NMB approval to move forward with a representational election. Once this is announced, the rhetoric, misinformation, lies etc. will get more and more once it is evident that an election will be held.

Now, hopefully we will hear from the NMB tomorrow as Mon is the deadline set for the co. to respond, could be Tue if they are given until midnight of the 30th, but NMB doesn't work after hours that I know of.
Last time AA supplied an eligibility list in a matter of hours, there should be no problem meeting the Mon deadline this time around as the eligibility list will be even smaller than last time. If AA ask for some type of an extension of time, AMFA should argue the fact that they provided it in hours last time and that it would just show that AA would be stalling on purpose with some sort of plan in mind, watch out and look for the worse case scenario and be prepared. Been awfully quiet IMO...

 

[Old Azz Mechanic]

AIM and SWAAMT you keep trying to make it seem as if I am a plant. I have stated MANY times that I am for having a all mechanic union. Also have stated that IF Amfa gets a elections, That I would vote for AMFA over the IAM/TWU.
I just dont believe the NMB will let that happened. Its a fixed system that AMFA dont understand how it works. I dont know why you dont understand what I am saying. Just look back at history. I you get a elections I will be the 1st to say I was WRONG. If you dont get one. Will you come on hear and admit that I WAS RIGHT. Or will you do as before and blame everyone one but yourself.
As far as your statement about how much I have lost. I would be more than willing to compare W2 with either of you for all the years worked. I bet you wont do it because you will see that YOU lost a lot more than me over the same years. Put up or shut up. Or keep attacking me because I am stating FACTS