AMFA versues industrial unions all mechanics all airlines

[B737 driver]

We do have some non-mechanic groups that are under AMFA because they are called related by the gov. However, with that said they all have their very own contracts and are off ours. When we became AMFA that was one of our demands, that we would be willing to accept the "related groups" as long as they had their own contracts. This way, they vote on their issues that relate to them, and we vote on our issues that relate to us. Mechanics never vote on cleaners contracts and issues and vise versa. All 4 of the groups recently added under AMFA representation had their own choices of unions to go with. They have seen the IAM here (although some number of years ago), they have seen the teamsters here, they to this day have seen the TWU here representing pamp and F/A's, and they have seen AMFA here as the representational union for the mechanics. All 4 groups chose to go with AMFA mainly because of how democratic they are, transparent, and always allows observers at the nego. table to stop all the lies and misinformation (like we have currently as the co. is taking full advantage of the mediators NOT allowing any observers at this time). All 4 groups came to AMFA and AMFA asked why not go with any of the other unions? And they said they liked the way AMFA is over all the other options, where they would have the most control of their union--period.

All the so called democracy and transparency isn't worth crap Swamt when we tell them we want something to vote on, and the ALR s tell us we don't trust you to vote, period!

 

[I'll have another]

We do have some non-mechanic groups that are under AMFA because they are called related by the gov. However, with that said they all have their very own contracts and are off ours. When we became AMFA that was one of our demands, that we would be willing to accept the "related groups" as long as they had their own contracts. This way, they vote on their issues that relate to them, and we vote on our issues that relate to us. Mechanics never vote on cleaners contracts and issues and vise versa. All 4 of the groups recently added under AMFA representation had their own choices of unions to go with. They have seen the IAM here (although some number of years ago), they have seen the teamsters here, they to this day have seen the TWU here representing pamp and F/A's, and they have seen AMFA here as the representational union for the mechanics. All 4 groups chose to go with AMFA mainly because of how democratic they are, transparent, and always allows observers at the nego. table to stop all the lies and misinformation (like we have currently as the co. is taking full advantage of the mediators NOT allowing any observers at this time). All 4 groups came to AMFA and AMFA asked why not go with any of the other unions? And they said they liked the way AMFA is over all the other options, where they would have the most control of their union--period.

Amfa is not a craft union like it boast. Appearance techs(cleaners), the vast majority of this work is outsourced. Most of the outsourced work is done by folks that can't speak English. Yet, these are the ones that do the security sweeps of the aircraft. Go figure that one! Observers, democracy, transparent, how's that working out. Maintenance control, training instructors were added to our contract without a vote. These are very small groups that have never had a union. To this day 90% of the mechanics contract is teamsters language. And I guarantee you 90% don't want that language changed.

 

[Vortilon]

I guess that's why the members are getting mad over here at SWA, not everyone, because no matter what union you have ,you will always have the die hards. You don't want to give the store away, but you don't want to wait forever to get a raise. I think most of us in reality , realize we do not have leverage, because we know we would never strike. Plus lets face it AMFA doesn't have the numbers of the membership, like the Teamsters does. I mean it was a nice idea to only represent mechanics, but we also have the cleaners, not in our contact. Maint control, training, GSE, mechanics, inspection, tech services, and facilities mechanics.

Are you even an AMT? The only AMTs that could back the IBT are the guys over at UPS, and that's because they are the only group in their local. In other words, AMTs representing AMTs. Trust me, the strength in numbers thing doesn't work. The company will pit one group against the other, and AMTs will always end up giving up more for the betterment of the non AMTs. Over here at AA, our Fac Maint Mechs make .80 more per hour base pay than an AMT. They are also given skill pay, so, basically our license pay value is negated by this. Thats the kind of crap you deal with industrial unions.

 

[B737 driver]

Are you even an AMT? The only AMTs that could back the IBT are the guys over at UPS, and that's because they are the only group in their local. In other words, AMTs representing AMTs. Trust me, the strength in numbers thing doesn't work. The company will pit one group against the other, and AMTs will always end up giving up more for the betterment of the non AMTs. Over here at AA, our Fac Maint Mechs make .80 more per hour base pay than an AMT. They are also given skill pay, so, basically our license pay value is negated by this. Thats the kind of crap you deal with industrial unions.

Yes I am, have been here over 24 years, just making a statement, we are really isolated here, and not going to have anything to vote on anytime soon. You guys at American have more power with what over 12,000 mechanics, to our 2500. Harder to replace 12,000, than it is 2500, not that it is going to come to that. If AMFA thinks they can shake more apples from the tree, they will do that, even if it takes 18 more months. When we get to the best and final offer, then we,will settle.

 

[I'll have another]

Are you even an AMT? The only AMTs that could back the IBT are the guys over at UPS, and that's because they are the only group in their local. In other words, AMTs representing AMTs. Trust me, the strength in numbers thing doesn't work. The company will pit one group against the other, and AMTs will always end up giving up more for the betterment of the non AMTs. Over here at AA, our Fac Maint Mechs make .80 more per hour base pay than an AMT. They are also given skill pay, so, basically our license pay value is negated by this. Thats the kind of crap you deal with industrial unions.

If I recall, united gave amfa a go for a little while. What happened?

 

[Buck]

If AMFA represented Mechanic+ were "forced" to accept non mechanics at a large rate, explain how the company or AMFA would react.

Same here, have know idea of amfa's political leanings. Most people don't vote or have any interest in the union. Sad but true. I usually have know idea about who the people are running for office are about except maybe a brief posting about themselves. Amfa is not what it was cracked up to be.

AMFA's political leanings are only what each member wants his or hers to be. On the other hand the Industrial Unions are Left leaning toward the AFL-CIO and the Democratic Party.
Any Conservative members within the Industrial Unions has only one choice which is Agency Fee.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Over here at AA, our Fac Maint Mechs make .80 more per hour base pay than an AMT. They are also given skill pay, so, basically our license pay value is negated by this. Thats the kind of crap you deal with industrial unions.

So what are you saying exactly?

You don't think a skilled tradesman deserves to make what you make?

Can you clarify your position?

 

[Buck]

Yes I am, have been here over 24 years, just making a statement, we are really isolated here, and not going to have anything to vote on anytime soon. You guys at American have more power with what over 12,000 mechanics, to our 2500. Harder to replace 12,000, than it is 2500, not that it is going to come to that. If AMFA thinks they can shake more apples from the tree, they will do that, even if it takes 18 more months. When we get to the best and final offer, then we,will settle.

I am not guessing whether you ( B737 ) driver and I'll Have Another are mechanics but you already have people on here wondering. Both of speak as if you have a lot of time in Industrial Unions promoting those agenda's. I find it amusing that both of you only joined this forum in July 2017, On a very Rare occasion, I have been wrong.

 

[chilokie1]

If I recall, united gave amfa a go for a little while. What happened?

Having an AMT & related only union would be in my opinion our best option, getting that union on the properties of the majority of airlines would be the worst nightmare for airlines as to their maintenance contract negotiations. That being said that union would face massive battles staying on the properties or getting on the properties once they have had success. I think the history of AMFA"s successes & failures proves that point, Southwest is using the RLA to its advantage to keep AMFA from once again negotiating an industry leading contract like it did at Northwest. Northwest used scab mechanics with help from AFL-CIO retired mechanics to break AMFA's strike. I know for a fact TWU members helped the Teamsters card drive at United, going door to door getting Teamster cards signed from laid-off United mechanics, the Teamsters returned the favor by staging a false card drive at AA helping the TWU & AA fighting off an AMFA card drive. AA helped the TWU stay in power by coordinating with the Teamsters by having its official roster in DC hours after the Teamsters filed with the NLRB (pardon if that is the wrong government acronym), that alone is unprecedented in the history of labor in the USA. This false drive is proven by the fact that had the Teamsters waited one week (like AMFA was doing) to file, 500 or so laid-off mechanics would have been dropped from the official roster. I wish AMFA would once again get aggressive in its card drives, their help might have been the difference at AA in our last card drive. It was a real grassroots drive, I even gave a nice chunk of change to help install an AMFA highway sign leading to the maintenance base in Tulsa. I cannot speak for the lack of response to AMFA's membership at Southwest as you claim but given the total collapse of any choice we now have at AA, and our complete lack of accurate information regarding our negotiations at AA "I would trade places with your contract and Union in a heartbeat"

 

[swamt]

Are you even an AMT? The only AMTs that could back the IBT are the guys over at UPS, and that's because they are the only group in their local. In other words, AMTs representing AMTs. Trust me, the strength in numbers thing doesn't work. The company will pit one group against the other, and AMTs will always end up giving up more for the betterment of the non AMTs. Over here at AA, our Fac Maint Mechs make .80 more per hour base pay than an AMT. They are also given skill pay, so, basically our license pay value is negated by this. Thats the kind of crap you deal with industrial unions.

AMEN brother.

Having an AMT & related only union would be in my opinion our best option, getting that union on the properties of the majority of airlines would be the worst nightmare for airlines as to their maintenance contract negotiations. That being said that union would face massive battles staying on the properties or getting on the properties once they have had success. I think the history of AMFA"s successes & failures proves that point, Southwest is using the RLA to its advantage to keep AMFA from once again negotiating an industry leading contract like it did at Northwest. Northwest used scab mechanics with help from AFL-CIO retired mechanics to break AMFA's strike. I know for a fact TWU members helped the Teamsters card drive at United, going door to door getting Teamster cards signed from laid-off United mechanics, the Teamsters returned the favor by staging a false card drive at AA helping the TWU & AA fighting off an AMFA card drive. AA helped the TWU stay in power by coordinating with the Teamsters by having its official roster in DC hours after the Teamsters filed with the NLRB (pardon if that is the wrong government acronym), that alone is unprecedented in the history of labor in the USA. This false drive is proven by the fact that had the Teamsters waited one week (like AMFA was doing) to file, 500 or so laid-off mechanics would have been dropped from the official roster. I wish AMFA would once again get aggressive in its card drives, their help might have been the difference at AA in our last card drive. It was a real grassroots drive, I even gave a nice chunk of change to help install an AMFA highway sign leading to the maintenance base in Tulsa. I cannot speak for the lack of response to AMFA's membership at Southwest as you claim but given the total collapse of any choice we now have at AA, and our complete lack of accurate information regarding our negotiations at AA "I would trade places with your contract and Union in a heartbeat"

Great post man. Finally someone who really knows what happened back then, and experienced it. Agree 100%. Aren't the teamsters great??? Just kidding.

 

[B737 driver]

AMEN brother.


Great post man. Finally someone who really knows what happened back then, and experienced it. Agree 100%. Aren't the teamsters great??? Just kidding.

I hope you American guys get your stuff that you want.AMFA is probably fine, but we need leadership change, you better not have the same guys in charge, or not much will change.

 

[I'll have another]

Having an AMT & related only union would be in my opinion our best option, getting that union on the properties of the majority of airlines would be the worst nightmare for airlines as to their maintenance contract negotiations. That being said that union would face massive battles staying on the properties or getting on the properties once they have had success. I think the history of AMFA"s successes & failures proves that point, Southwest is using the RLA to its advantage to keep AMFA from once again negotiating an industry leading contract like it did at Northwest. Northwest used scab mechanics with help from AFL-CIO retired mechanics to break AMFA's strike. I know for a fact TWU members helped the Teamsters card drive at United, going door to door getting Teamster cards signed from laid-off United mechanics, the Teamsters returned the favor by staging a false card drive at AA helping the TWU & AA fighting off an AMFA card drive. AA helped the TWU stay in power by coordinating with the Teamsters by having its official roster in DC hours after the Teamsters filed with the NLRB (pardon if that is the wrong government acronym), that alone is unprecedented in the history of labor in the USA. This false drive is proven by the fact that had the Teamsters waited one week (like AMFA was doing) to file, 500 or so laid-off mechanics would have been dropped from the official roster. I wish AMFA would once again get aggressive in its card drives, their help might have been the difference at AA in our last card drive. It was a real grassroots drive, I even gave a nice chunk of change to help install an AMFA highway sign leading to the maintenance base in Tulsa. I cannot speak for the lack of response to AMFA's membership at Southwest as you claim but given the total collapse of any choice we now have at AA, and our complete lack of accurate information regarding our negotiations at AA "I would trade places with your contract and Union in a heartbeat"

You guys want amfa so bad, here's how you do it. Screw the highway signs. Get a copy of the seniority list, about 10 grand, get the home addresses of each a&p by going to the faa license inquiry site to get the home addresses. It'll take a lot of time. Then contact amfa national for the amount of cards you need. The 10 grand will pay for the postage, etc. if you get 50% +1, you will have singlehandedly created a union challenge. A few motivated guys can get this done.

 

[B737 driver]

You guys want amfa so bad, here's how you do it. Screw the highway signs. Get a copy of the seniority list, about 10 grand, get the home addresses of each a&p by going to the faa license inquiry site to get the home addresses. It'll take a lot of time. Then contact amfa national for the amount of cards you need. The 10 grand will pay for the postage, etc. if you get 50% +1, you will have singlehandedly created a union challenge. A few motivated guys can get this done.

It's not that hard, if you guys are as fed up as you say, then it can be done. Heck once you get a challenge , the majority rules. That's how the Teamsters got kicked out of SWA, and not that many people voted. Perfect example is our officers election, we get about a 22% of our members vote, even less come to union meetings.But whatever you guys do don't put the same F sticks in charge. Good luck guys!

 

[chilokie1]

You guys want amfa so bad, here's how you do it. Screw the highway signs. Get a copy of the seniority list, about 10 grand, get the home addresses of each a&p by going to the faa license inquiry site to get the home addresses. It'll take a lot of time. Then contact amfa national for the amount of cards you need. The 10 grand will pay for the postage, etc. if you get 50% +1, you will have singlehandedly created a union challenge. A few motivated guys can get this done.

Knock Knock this is reality speaking, did you not read my post? We had the cards, we only needed one week and our total amount of cards needed would drop by 250. We had the lists you spoke of, we had obituary's to prove the AMT was deceased!
We had retirement flyers that the company put out when they sponsored a retirement party at work for an AMT. Why you ask?
Because years before we submitted a request for representation with AMFA, and the company submitted their list (months later I might add) with duplicate names, deceased employees & retired employees. Getting two government agencies together to help write these wrongs when the administration does not want them to is impossible. It was up to us to prove the list was wrong, the duplicates were easy enough but the others were not, I believe our request was just timed out. That is the reason we wanted to wait, we needed the buffer, nobody in our camp would have even for a second thought the company would stoop that low as to submit their list hours after the Teamsters (which meant we needed are actual physical cards in Washington DC by closing time that day). Any advice for us now smart guy? I cant make this s--t up.

 

[I'll have another]

Knock Knock this is reality speaking, did you not read my post? We had the cards, we only needed one week and our total amount of cards needed would drop by 250. We had the lists you spoke of, we had obituary's to prove the AMT was deceased!
We had retirement flyers that the company put out when they sponsored a retirement party at work for an AMT. Why you ask?
Because years before we submitted a request for representation with AMFA, and the company submitted their list (months later I might add) with duplicate names, deceased employees & retired employees. Getting two government agencies together to help write these wrongs when the administration does not want them to is impossible. It was up to us to prove the list was wrong, the duplicates were easy enough but the others were not, I believe our request was just timed out. That is the reason we wanted to wait, we needed the buffer, nobody in our camp would have even for a second thought the company would stoop that low as to submit their list hours after the Teamsters (which meant we needed are actual physical cards in Washington DC by closing time that day). Any advice for us now smart guy? I cant make this s--t up.

Not trying to be a smart guy. So are you up to trying again? Have you contacted are new director. We also have a lobbyist in D.C..that could possibly help. What did amfa do when all this happened back then?