Amr Debt And Bankruptcy

Will AMR inevitably file for bankruptcy protection give its enormous debt?

  • 1.Yes, AMR will inevitably seek Chapter 11 protection.........

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 2.No, AMR will not see bankruptcy protection.....................

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
There are still more concessions to be squeezed out of the low level employees.

Only after they have gotten all they can, will they do the BK thing to get even more.

Remember, the top 50 or so have BK proof retirements, so they will not be hurt too much by BK.
 
Wretched Wrench said:
There are still more concessions to be squeezed out of the low level employees.

Only after they have gotten all they can, will they do the BK thing to get even more.

Remember, the top 50 or so have BK proof retirements, so they will not be hurt too much by BK.
[post="253163"][/post]​


That's right, and Burchette's pajama party bed partner is one that has secured pensions.

Yeah, we trust him alright.
 
The sites that rate the stock estimate debt at $14 bil. With annual revenue at about $20 bil it seems unlikely that bk will be an option for another 18 months. Unless oil becomes so out of hand that everyone tries to beat each other to bk court. But from what others are going through it remains to be seen just what the advantage is of going bankrupt. The people with the golden parachutes tend to be loaded to begin with, it seems to be more of an ego driven game than a preordained conspiracy.
 
Bagbelt said:
The sites that rate the stock estimate debt at $14 bil.
[post="253310"][/post]​

If you take the data from the 10K, it's closer to the $23B figure. Trying to estimate debt is a tricky business, since it changes based on a mix of long and short term debt. Not quite as simple as pulling a credit report...

I don't see a filing anytime soon. AMR already renegotiated its leases and contracts once. Not sure what added benefit really exists in a courtroom for either side.
 
Former ModerAAtor said:
If you take the data from the 10K, it's closer to the $23B figure. Trying to estimate debt is a tricky business, since it changes based on a mix of long and short term debt. Not quite as simple as pulling a credit report...

I don't see a filing anytime soon. AMR already renegotiated its leases and contracts once. Not sure what added benefit really exists in a courtroom for either side.
[post="253347"][/post]​

The benefit to a CH.11 courtroom is screwing creditors out of their $$$$$$.
Does anyone realize the profits that must be sustained and for how long to even put a dent in this debt?
 
Hopeful said:
The benefit to a CH.11 courtroom is screwing creditors out of their $$$$$$.
[post="253361"][/post]​

Not just creditors. Employees, too. At least, lower level employees.

.
 
Hopeful said:
The benefit to a CH.11 courtroom is screwing creditors out of their $$$$$$.
Does anyone realize the profits that must be sustained and for how long to even put a dent in this debt?
[post="253361"][/post]​

Yep. A huge chunk of the profits we were bringing in during the late 90's were going to pay off the debt from the early 90's. Assuming AA returns to profitability at some point in the next few years, we'll be doing the same -- paying down debt instead of paying out profit sharing.

For those who still believe that by filing Chapter 11, AA'd have zero debt, I suggest you go do a little research on your own. It's not a get out of debt free card. Yes, there's some debt that can be eliminated and you have the ability to be released from, but most of it is simply restructured, which means the payments are stretched out even further.

Do some creditors take a hit? Yes. But only the unsecured creditors.

Secured debt (aircraft and parts as security) is a far bigger amount on the balance sheet. To get out of those debts, AA would have to sell the asset. That's the dillema US Airways and United are in right now ---- they're losing aircraft and don't have the credit to replace them.

If the legal bills of UAL and US Airways are any indicator, any benefit from restructuring the debt simply got sucked up by the lawyers. They're really the only entity which benefits from a bankruptcy filing.
 
Get Over It Already said:
Yep. A huge chunk of the profits we were bringing in during the late 90's were going to pay off the debt from the early 90's. Assuming AA returns to profitability at some point in the next few years, we'll be doing the same -- paying down debt instead of paying out profit sharing.
[post="253491"][/post]​

Somewhere, I have a chart showing debt paydown over the past 20 years.... I'll see if I can find that.
 
Get Over It Already said:
Yep. A huge chunk of the profits we were bringing in during the late 90's were going to pay off the debt from the early 90's. Assuming AA returns to profitability at some point in the next few years, we'll be doing the same -- paying down debt instead of paying out profit sharing.

For those who still believe that by filing Chapter 11, AA'd have zero debt, I suggest you go do a little research on your own. It's not a get out of debt free card. Yes, there's some debt that can be eliminated and you have the ability to be released from, but most of it is simply restructured, which means the payments are stretched out even further.

Do some creditors take a hit? Yes. But only the unsecured creditors.

Secured debt (aircraft and parts as security) is a far bigger amount on the balance sheet. To get out of those debts, AA would have to sell the asset. That's the dillema US Airways and United are in right now ---- they're losing aircraft and don't have the credit to replace them.

If the legal bills of UAL and US Airways are any indicator, any benefit from restructuring the debt simply got sucked up by the lawyers. They're really the only entity which benefits from a bankruptcy filing.
[post="253491"][/post]​


The judge in the UA bankruptcy ruled that one of the aircraft lessors could NOT reposses it's aircraft (14 I believe) even though UA is not paying for them.
 
Hopeful said:
The benefit to a CH.11 courtroom is screwing creditors out of their $$$$$$.
Does anyone realize the profits that must be sustained and for how long to even put a dent in this debt?
[post="253361"][/post]​

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hopeful,
You KNOW, I've "got your back" 99.9% of the time, but I voted" NO BK" !

1. Your right, there's MORE "$$squeezin' to come(thanx to a union/ATD based in Tex-ass and Okie-homa"

2. Unless 2 of the 3 (NW,CO, or DL) go BK, then we won't......... Because,

3. (Though I can't prove it) AA has ALWAYS "had a horse shoe up It's A$$, and like a cat with 9 lives, always lands on it's feet.


BUT, like everything else at AA, Time will tell !!!!!!!!

NH/BB's
 
NewHampshire Black Bears said:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hopeful,
You KNOW, I've "got your back" 99.9% of the time, but I voted" NO BK" !

1. Your right, there's MORE "$$squeezin' to come(thanx to a union/ATD based in Tex-ass and Okie-homa"

2.  Unless 2 of the 3 (NW,CO, or DL) go BK, then we won't......... Because,

3. (Though I can't prove it) AA has ALWAYS "had a horse shoe up It's A$$, and like a cat with 9 lives, always lands on it's feet.
BUT, like everything else at AA, Time will tell  !!!!!!!!

NH/BB's
[post="253566"][/post]​


NH/BB's! How's it going?

You are certainly right about AA's lucky horseshoe. But the debt is enormous. They need to finish labor off once and for all and that will happen sooner rather than later.

I do think AA will file for Ch.11 eventually. They need to pay this debt down to be more attractive to Wall Street. But then again, with the TWU lovefest going on in TUL, when the 18 month period is up, drastic changes in maintenance might save AA that $500,000,000 every couple of years rather than a one time 18 months.
 
NewHampshire Black Bears said:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hopeful,
You KNOW, I've "got your back" 99.9% of the time, but I voted" NO BK" !

1. Your right, there's MORE "$$squeezin' to come(thanx to a union/ATD based in Tex-ass and Okie-homa"

2. Unless 2 of the 3 (NW,CO, or DL) go BK, then we won't......... Because,

3. (Though I can't prove it) AA has ALWAYS "had a horse shoe up It's A$$, and like a cat with 9 lives, always lands on it's feet.
BUT, like everything else at AA, Time will tell !!!!!!!!

NH/BB's
[post="253566"][/post]​
<_< I agree! Word around here is Arpy & Co. have been staching money as much as they can to buy assists of said Airlines, if, and when, they should happen to go Chapt.7!!!!!
 
MCI transplant said:
<_< I agree! Word around here is Arpy & Co. have been staching money as much as they can to buy assists of said Airlines, if, and when, they should happen to go Chapt.7!!!!!
[post="253609"][/post]​


Possibly....If you think about it, AA can always turn to more concessions and throw the "or else" at us. But I think they have abot 3-4 billion in cash..........................that we know of!