Anti-AFA Delta FA's On US 1549

[Dignity]

Statistically as I have stated before, I think AFA is going to have to make sure that at least a solid 80-85% of NW's FA population votes in favor of staying unionized with AFA or case closed. That means if about 1,200 NW f/a's don't vote, game's over.

if this situation was a few years ago, before the buyouts, the retirements and all the new hires I would probably think that solid 80 percent plus would absolutely continue to favor representation, but a lot has changed and I am not so sure?...people who were ready to move on and concerned about their pensions have left... it is going to be very close...

..some of the Junior Flight Attendants I have spoken with here and there...want the Adays reserve instead of the straight reserve...and not to be locked into straight reserve for another year or the time frame to secure another contract and kept separate due to a fence..they better start thinking about the new people and the ones who have been here a while who want your reserve system...yesterday.

 

[Dignity]

Yes I agree. It seems that it would be costly.

setting the cost issue aside..I do not think those in other countries would even be interested in an International union with any of us over here.. and I dont even think its possible in the first place? especially taking into consideration labor laws unique to each country and so on? would those throughout Europe even consider that... probably not?

 

[jalbalpa]

Again what people are failing to see is that it is not a problem. It would be considered a problem if it was inhibiting unions in organizing in the industry. The airline industry is one of the most highly unionized out of all sectors.

Obviously it is a problem, lets ask all the unions that represent airline workers if they think its a problem. This is a judgement call, you say NO...she says YES and theres no basis for the argument.

The fact that the airline industry is on the of the most highly unionized has nothing to do with people wanting to join a union. If 90% want to be union member, yet only 75% are union members....then YES there is a problem! This is what you fail to understand, the airline industry is highly unionized because it's needed...it's like a necessary evil.

Personally, I think the anti-union side is very unsecure about the outcome of the YES/NO vote...because they know it would pass in a heartbeat. There are many more people that would pickup the phone and vote YES compared to the NO's.

 

[Dignity]

Personally, I think the anti-union side is very unsecure about the outcome of the YES/NO vote...because they know it would pass in a heartbeat. There are many more people that would pickup the phone and vote YES compared to the NO's.

I honestly dont know about that...more than likely we are going to see the same percentage plus or minus a few on the DL side.. but continue to show the same as the past two elections as their majority...especially with a DOH reccomendation..

the issue is going to be our group, and Im telling you...I am not so sure..I am thinking a strong 70 percent...but I dont know about 85.

 

[dapoes]

Obviously it is a problem, lets ask all the unions that represent airline workers if they think its a problem. This is a judgement call, you say NO...she says YES and theres no basis for the argument.

The only times the unions have a problem with it is when they lose. They have had what 70+ years to get it changed. Yet have remain quite on the subject until they lose an election of course.

The fact that the airline industry is on the of the most highly unionized has nothing to do with people wanting to join a union. If 90% want to be union member, yet only 75% are union members....then YES there is a problem! This is what you fail to understand, the airline industry is highly unionized because it's needed...it's like a necessary evil.

That's just your highly-biased-pro-union opinion

Personally, I think the anti-union side is very unsecure about the outcome of the YES/NO vote...because they know it would pass in a heartbeat. There are many more people that would pickup the phone and vote YES compared to the NO's.

Didn't work that well last May did it? Or in 2002.

 

[Kev3188]

..some of the Junior Flight Attendants I have spoken with here and there...want the Adays reserve instead of the straight reserve...and not to be locked into straight reserve for another year or the time frame to secure another contract and kept separate due to a fence..they better start thinking about the new people and the ones who have been here a while who want your reserve system...yesterday.

So why not make that a priority when it comes time to create a joint agreement?

I think both sides (in all work groups) have gotten so bogged down in the "we-have-this-and-you-have-that" that we forget that when it comes time to sit down at the table, we'll be combining the best from both.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

setting the cost issue aside..I do not think those in other countries would even be interested in an International union with any of us over here.. and I dont even think its possible in the first place? especially taking into consideration labor laws unique to each country and so on? would those throughout Europe even consider that... probably not?

You're probably right. I will be the first to admit I don't know anything about International unions or the laws that govern them. I just remember NxNW mentioning it last year and it seemed like a nice idea.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Personally, I think the anti-union side is very unsecure about the outcome of the YES/NO vote...because they know it would pass in a heartbeat. There are many more people that would pickup the phone and vote YES compared to the NO's.

I would have to agree with you...if it was changed to a YES or NO vote. (Isn't that a Laker Ballot?)
The reason I believe this is: the way it's set up now with the RLA, the system rewards passivity. And DL FAs are used to that since we've had 2 elections in six years. Want to maintain the status quo? Do nothing.
If those who were absolutely certain that they didn't need a contract had to actually do something besides rip up the PIN and instructions from the NMB (like every other piece of junkmail one receives), you might see a very different outcome. That's why I posed the the question to dapoes.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Didn't work that well last May did it? Or in 2002.

Jal is talking about a YES/NO form of voting here., not the traditional way.

 

[Dignity]

So why not make that a priority when it comes time to create a joint agreement?

because the time frame is undetermined and some people dont want to wait..

I think both sides (in all work groups) have gotten so bogged down in the "we-have-this-and-you-have-that" that we forget that when it comes time to sit down at the table, we'll be combining the best from both.

that is true...

DL reserve is superior to our straight reserve and can actually plan a schedule and have a life...when someone is on straight reserve and they see they can have Aday in the near term why bother even voting in a union?

and what incentive will there be for a mid level flight attendant to willingly vote a contract that will put one day of reserve on their line every month and in this case three days? not much...so to some it may appear just dont vote a union and dont have to worry taking the chance and going right to Adays after the SOC..

its a real issue today because there are more new hires and those on straight reserve for longer periods of time...keep in mind though it was only a very few who actually told me this..maybe one or two..

 

[Dignity]

You're probably right.

I honestly dont know it was just a guess..

I will be the first to admit I don't know anything about International unions or the laws that govern them

it just does not seem like it would be possible..having foreign countries into one International union because of the labor laws, but then that is just another guess, I really dont know that either.

I just remember NxNW mentioning it last year and it seemed like a nice idea.

where is North?

 

[jalbalpa]

There wasn't a YES or NO vote last year or in 2002. If there was, well...who knows where we would be.

You can't assume that people who don't vote are NO votes.

You will always argue this because if the union vote goes thru you might actually have to fly and not be on special assignments the whole time that consist of being all over the place on the internet spreading lies.
:jerry:

 

[dapoes]

You can't assume that people who don't vote are NO votes.

And you cant assume that they are not as well.

You will always argue this because if the union vote goes thru you might actually have to fly and not be on special assignments the whole time that consist of being all over the place on the internet spreading lies.
:jerry:

Sounds to me like you are the one on "Special (AFA - Hugger) Assignments" (and spreading lies for that matter).
Feel free to type until your fingers bleed.

 

[signals]

Your industry has always fascinated me and I have nothing but admiration for it as a whole. You have now come to a fork where you must decide union or non-union. Let alone ironing out seniority and other issues that are to come.

Maybe this was already mentioned elsewhere, but it calls for one to read between the lines or at least question where they will stand...union or non-union.
Article:
Backed by management, a group of flight attendants at Delta Air Lines Inc. who were with the company before its acquisition of Northwest Airlines want the two carriers' seniority lists combined based on date of hire, and they are pushing the union that represents Northwest flight attendants to move forward with the plan.

Does this mean that an FA that was hired by Delta a day before the merger will have more seniority than a 10 year FA from NW? Then again can a unionized Delta go by the Union Time Seniority....or whatever you want to call it...meaning by the member's union seniority?

The bottom line is to protect jobs....again union or non-union. I wish all the best and may you come to an agreement to profit you all

Just a side story that has nothing to do with this, or maybe it does ...
A former NWA employee that works in my industry said that an NWA employee that transfered to Houston told him that she is getting a 'better deal' with Delta than she ever saw with NW and has suddenly become a 'to hell with the union' type employee. She probably has seen how one IAM faction can replace another!

Think before you leap and protect the jobs!!!

 

[1Conehead]

do not agree with a non vote counting as a 'No' in an election..someone should simply vote Yes or No and the majority rules, if someone chooses not to participate voting then they just simply have forfeited their vote..

I agree ,what I consider part of a true vote.
When any political voting takes place the incumbent doesn't receive the non-votes .