Ata To Europe?

[BoeingBoy]

In another thread I mentioned an analyst saying that Boeing's new 7E7 was an airplane perfectly designed for a carrier that didn't exist - a LCC flying to Europe.

Although the 7E7 is still a ways from service, the time of the LCC going to Europe may be close at hand.

Low-cost airline flying to Europe? ATA studies pioneering plan

JOHN GILLIE; The News Tribune

Indianapolis-based ATA Airlines Inc. could become the first U.S. low-cost carrier to provide scheduled service to European destinations, the airline's vice chairman said Tuesday.

Article

Jim

 

[Capecod]

I have to say I have always wondered why the LCC's haven't invaded the Caribbean. Leisure travelers like the FLA market but a higher yield and a chance to do more damage to the Legacy carriers where they make money. I'm sure there not far
away. :down: -Cape

 

[jimntx]

Like the reply regarding the Caribbean, I'm surprised it hasn't happened before now. After all NYC-London is not that much longer a flight than NYC-LA. And, people who would endure cramped space and no food on a JFK-LAX flight for a cheap fare, probably wouldn't think twice about same conditions for same low fare to Europe.

It may be that the only thing that has stopped it is the fact that both London airports are already congested. Also, the countries of the European Union tend to be protective of their flag airlines whether government-owned or not. I'm sure that Great Britain sees no benefit to allowing ATA access to the detriment of BA. Same goes for France and Germany.

They all talk "open skies", but they don't give anymore latitude to U.S. airlines than we give to them, and that ain't much. Let's face it, if there were a true open skies arrangement, Sir Richard (Branson) would already have operations here and would be giving grief to our LCCs as well as the traditionals.

 

[Bear96]

What's so new about a trans-Atlantic LCC? Freddie Laker's Skytrain was one such service; and as for being a US-based carrier, People Express offered EWR-BRU and I think another European destination at one time.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Bear96,

London, maybe???

Jim

 

[Bear96]

Bear96,

London, maybe???

Jim

My not-so-trusty memory came up with London too but I wasn't sure and couldn't remember which airport. I want to say LGW... anyone remember?

 

[7.5victim]

It may be that the only thing that has stopped it is the fact that both London airports are already congested. Also, the countries of the European Union tend to be protective of their flag airlines whether government-owned or not. I'm sure that Great Britain sees no benefit to allowing ATA access to the detriment of BA. Same goes for France and Germany.

Both London airports? Don't forget Stanstead and Luton. Both of which have substantial LCC service to carrier customers beyond and into Europe. The open skies agreements would allow service from the US to any city in an "open skies" country. The UK has offered to open every airport but LHR. Why not BWI-STN? Germany would make an issue out of slots at FRA, but there's always HHN. France might try the same with CDG slots, but for the right price, people would fly at off peak times. ATA has a ton of International experience. There's no reason to not see it coming.

 

[Andre1980]

I don't think it may be successful for them to do this since atlantic flying seems to be very seasonal where the high point is summer travel and after that it will become challenging to get more people to fly since we have all seen BA, UA and AA do $99 fare sales to london and I can forcast that if they do want to get into the transatlantic flying game they will have to hold on very tight since Virgin, Air France, Brithish Air etc will make things pretty difficult for them. I

 

[Bear96]

I don't think it may be successful for them to do this since atlantic flying seems to be very seasonal where the high point is summer travel and after that it will become challenging to get more people to fly since we have all seen BA, UA and AA do $99 fare sales to london and I can forcast that if they do want to get into the transatlantic flying game they will have to hold on very tight since Virgin, Air France, Brithish Air etc will make things pretty difficult for them. I

Good point, and I think the seasonal extremes of trans-Atlantic travel are exactly why such a scheme is not too viable. Arguably that problem led to the beginning of the end of Pan Am, which tried to find a way to utilize its fleet during the slow months of winter, which led to the merger with National to increase NE-to-FL service during that market's peak winter months, which led to...

Of course there was more to Pan Am's problems than that, but the point is, to have a viable busniess strategy any carrier that ramps up service to Europe during the summer months is going to have to think of something profitable to do with those planes during the winter doldrums, and compete with the other how many trans-Atlantic carriers all faced with the same problem who all respond by offering dirt-cheap trans-Atlantic winter fares.

If you are offering low trans-Atlantic fares during the summer, fergoodnessake, what on Earth are you going to do in the WINTER to fill those planes? $19 PHL-CDG? $9 LGA-TPA hourly on an A330? THAT business model won't last too long.

 

[Ch. 12]

ATA says may start flights to Europe by summer '05

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

ATA used to have charters to Europe.
In 1991 (plus or minus 1 year) I took ATA from DTW to FRA with a stop-over in Iceland (the aircraft was a B-757).

Any guesses as to the probable destination(s)?

 

[coolflyingfool]

Well, they can't use MDW as the Europe base. IND a slight, but definitely very outside chance. So what city on the East Coast do they use as their European Gateway? Or maybe they just do a r/t deal from each city they serve, so no gateway needed. Thoughts? I got to go to bed..........

 

[Ride the Glide]

Why not use MDW as the European gateway for 757 service, just need to tech stop YQX or BGR on the way to the continent

For an east coast Gateway I like EWR. Lots of O&D and apparently some gate availability now that ATA has dropped the SFO-EWR flights.

 

[PHX Flyer]

I would say that any of the NYC airports. either JFK or EWR, is a pretty good guess. EWR is certainly more likely, since ATA already has a presence there. But ATA could readily obtain slots at JFK, too.

With regard to destinations: I have some independent information hinting at Cologne (CGN), Germany. Let's see if that one pans out ... . London (Stansted) and Paris are probably no-brainers.

 

[PHX Flyer]

Just re-read the press release: they rule out popular routes like NYC to London and Paris. Instead they plan point-to-point traffic, i.e. from Orlando. It seems almost like they are primarily targeting traffic originating in Europe.