AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

Then you and your compadres are as responsible as anyone else for the last 6+ years.

Driver...

Exactly.

The 9th had it right. The only way forward is for the company and USAPA to bargain freely, the pilots to ratify a contract, and afterwards any discontented to sue to their hearts content.

If the company was really interested in moving forward they would have simply done so, as they were already dismissed from culpability in a previous lawsuit... Or they could have asked the "West class" to have their legal representatives draw up a letter of legal immunity for the company ( oh yeah, the west has no legal representative accept USAPA)..

We can fight amongst each other for another five years about what the company should propose in a contract, but until we vote a contract in the company and USAPA are and always have been free to bargain.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

We had a place for bargaining, it was the JNC. Within that process, was everything we would have needed to come to an agreement with the company, up to and including addressing east issues. Heck how about this slant, what if the east had voted down agreement after agreement, and it was abundantly clear why. Would Alpo then have had a 'legitimate reason' that would pass the court's muster?

 

[Phoenix]

We had a place for bargaining, it was the JNC. Within that process, was everything we would have needed to come to an agreement with the company, up to and including addressing east issues. Heck how about this slant, what if the east had voted down agreement after agreement, and it was abundantly clear why. Would Alpo then have had a 'legitimate reason' that would pass the court's muster?

The JNC was not the "place" we had to bargain. The JNC was IN bargaining with the company. The "place" we had to bargain is still the same "place" and has never changed... it is the table at which the company and the legal pilot bargaining agent can sit at, and at which they are still free to bargain.

Hypotheticals of what could have been don't have any impact on current realities, accept to humor your hypothetical, we do now have a precedent to suggest if ALPA had changed its bargaining position, in the interest of reaching an agreement, they would have been unencumbered by the courts, with the caveat that there actions would be subject to a DFR following an eventual ratification of a contract, the standard being a wide range of reasonableness.

Personally it wouldn't surprise me if the walls in Herndon heard secret conversations discussing the fastest way for Prater and his pals to unload responsibility for the train wreck they possessed. When USAPA was hatched, Prater rejoiced.

 

[A320 Driver]

I disagree. That was a rigged arena, and the west was under duress. It was placed there not of it's own volition. The east was already starting to flex it's numerical muscle, and it was aided and abetted by ALPO national. I figured we'd end up with usapa, and we did. I worried that the bigger hammer would work. But I couldn't see just giving in, not in the way it was handled. That's my version of standing up for what I believe in.

Put me on fair and equal footing, and then you can accuse me of being unreasonable, but not after the way that went down. At least that's how I see it.

I understand your point, but just let me say, we see a lot of that around here. Many "stand up for what they believe in" even when it is contrary to every advice of council and you end up at the very spot you were warned you would find yourself. A pawn can stand it's ground on the chessboard, right up to the point that it is taken by a bishop, a rook, a knight or a queen.

So here we are. It's obvious nobody is going to flinch, so we will just have to let outsiders make our decisions for us.

Driver...

 

[EastUS1]

Do you have some specifiic names in mind? and a realistic timeline to acheive your stated goal? and the efficacy of attempting this on the verge of a merger and the dissolution of USAPA anyway?

The poster unintentionally self-addressed that with the "emotional amateurs" comment.

 

[traderjake]

So here we are. It's obvious nobody is going to flinch, so we will just have to let outsiders make our decisions for us.

And this time we mean it (but only if imposed on us by the courts).

 

[EastUS1]

And if Obama wins, Lord help the rest of the country.

This election is ANOTHER lose-lose.

Indeed.

 

[traderjake]

And if Obama wins, Lord help the rest of the country.

This election is ANOTHER lose-lose.

The only thing that make Romney slightly better (maybe) is he would have to stand for reelection.

 

[luvn737s]

Personally it wouldn't surprise me if the walls in Herndon heard secret conversations discussing the fastest way for Prater and his pals to unload responsibility for the train wreck they possessed. When USAPA was hatched, Prater rejoiced.

Would a CAT scan of your brain reveal some psychedelic spin-art?

Prater had the means to end this by putting both MEC's in trusteeship and signing the Joint Contract and throwing back in the AAAALPA MEC's face. He kow-towed and all but begged the US pilots not to give up on ALPA and if that meant throwing the AWA pilots under the bus at Wye River, so be it!

He thought he could buy your loyalty, unknowing you had none to sell.

PS- The arbitration process was his way to unload ALPA's responsibility onto soneone else. It worked precisely the way it was supposed to. The Weasel Factor was overlooked, however.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Yes he did, but guess what he didn't, get over it, sounds like your the one yelling the loudest, what's the rush, regardless of SILVER, the 9th comes round again. sit back relax and enjoy the ride! MM!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Would a CAT scan of your brain reveal some psychedelic spin-art?

Prater had the means to end this by putting both MEC's in trusteeship and signing the Joint Contract and throwing back in the AAAALPA MEC's face. He kow-towed and all but begged the US pilots not to give up on ALPA and if that meant throwing the AWA pilots under the bus at Wye River, so be it!

He thought he could buy your loyalty, unknowing you had none to sell.

PS- The arbitration process was his way to unload ALPA's responsibility onto soneone else. It worked precisely the way it was supposed to. The Weasel Factor was overlooked, however.

Have some comfort in the fact "YOU HAVE DEFEATED THE EFFECTS OF DOH" , for at least more years to come! MM!

 

[Ames]

Then you and your compadres are as responsible as anyone else for the last 6+ years.

Driver...

Myself and my compadres are not the ones who are attempting to disregard their agreements and a legal and binding arbitration. That's on you and your despicable compadres.

 

[EastUS1]

PS- The arbitration process was his way to unload ALPA's responsibility onto soneone else. It worked precisely the way it was supposed to. The Weasel Factor was overlooked, however.

"...to unload ALPA's responsibility onto soneone else........The Weasel Factor was overlooked,..." ? Oh hardly. Just the fact that anyone could put "Weasel Factor" together with .."to unloadALPA's responsibility onto someone else" amazingly...without seeing the incredible irony and absurdity of it, currently places you firmly in the lead for Joke of the Day honors "....

 

[Ames]

I understand your point, but just let me say, we see a lot of that around here. Many "stand up for what they believe in" even when it is contrary to every advice of council and you end up at the very spot you were warned you would find yourself. A pawn can stand it's ground on the chessboard, right up to the point that it is taken by a bishop, a rook, a knight or a queen.

So here we are. It's obvious nobody is going to flinch, so we will just have to let outsiders make our decisions for us.

Driver...

We on the west are willing to let the "outsiders" make that decision. When the judge fianlly speaks we will move on. We tried working together with the east once. Followed a legal and binding process and look where we are. I find it absolutely comical that you eastholes try to put this stalemate on us.

I really do hope we merge with American because I just can't wait for the end of ucrapa and am looking forward to the eastholes getting a bit of their own medicine.

 

[Ames]

Have some comfort in the fact "YOU HAVE DEFEATED THE EFFECTS OF DOH" , for at least more years to come! MM!

That, ladies and gentlemen, is priceless.