Bloomberg Article DL + AK M&A

DL won't buy AS - both for DOJ concerns and because DL's fleet of 737-900ERs cost about the same as ALK.

Far cheaper to build it inhouse.
 
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Less headaches too. Let's remember that AS' C-Suite is on record as being against any sort of M&A activity like this.
 
...And that doesn't even factor in the "Keep AS my AS" mindset many of the Eskimo's employees have.
 
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Kev will this mean the IAM 142 AS employees will move-up to DL standards and have ramp work insourced at hubs? Really says a lot about the quality of the IAM AS agreement if ramp work at HUBS are contracted along with other deficiencies in scope that pretty much give the co flexibility to do as they choose. Don't hear you and the other IAM proponents talk much about the AS agreement but then again since it doesn't suit your agenda you will say you aren't familiar with it, can't speak to it and consider it arbitrary/insignificant.

Josh
 
It's been a while since I read their contract, but while you're busy bashing the IAM out of blindness, you might want to actually look at the language. IAM @ AS could have allowed the ramp to remain insourced *if* they could have found a way to be cost competitive with an outsourcer. As far as I know, they could still re-insource if their costs became competitive.

Of all the outsourcing permitted by various labor units, I can't think of anyone who had this "right of refusal" type language in their contracts.
 
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Josh--

My "agenda" is socioeconomic progress for America's working class.

Adjust your future replies accordingly.

And, no, I'm not all too familiar with AS' CBAs. Same as last time you asked. Would you like me to lie and claim I am?
 
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Guess joshie doesnt know the IAM won the outsourcing arbitration in the SEA case.
 
I think you are all wrong.From what I've been told that article is close to the truth.
 
to be honest with you, meto, I would be very surprised if DL could ever obtain DOJ approval after becoming a solid number two carrier in direct competition to a number of key AS markets.

It also doesn't change the cost of acquiring AS is far higher than DL would spend in providing that feed on a long-term basis. DL has still committed less than about 20 large RJs to nearly all of the west coast domestic flying DL has added - and DL is not going to operate that flying at a complete loss.

A lot of us may be wrong but it is hard to imagine that DL still intends to save the AS-DL relationship on a long-term basis or expect to be able to acquire them after adding one market after another - and AS has done the same thing. The amount of overlap between AS and DL is very significant - precisely what the DOJ looks at in mergers.
 
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All the more reason that AS should walk away from the partnership agreement...
 
Sure, the two carriers don't have ATI protection, and DL would be free to enter markets as they saw fit, but AS could successfully argue that the FF reciprocity has given DL a better look at the books than they'd otherwise have had access to, and they're abusing that information much the same way that Mesa was accused of doing with both Aloha and Hawaiian.  
 
Mesa was found guilty in the Hawaiian lawsuit and wound having to settle with HA for some $52M.  The Aloha lawsuit seems to have been dropped as a result of their ceasing operations.
 
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DL and Alaska are not competitors they are code shares er's and that makes all those " overlapping flights just that. Overlapping (On paper) .So where is the DOJ objection to a defacto situation ? Looks like. MSP. DTW SLC ATL CVG ... All fortress hubs. SEA would just be what DL does for the most part make hub's where no one else is .They are cheap for what you acquire and the downside is that someone else buys them. Market cap is 8.8B. 132 new 737's and solvent. Plus cash. From what I've been told this has been in the works for a while. Whether it is completed time will tell.
 
WorldTraveler said:
DL won't buy AS - both for DOJ concerns and because DL's fleet of 737-900ERs cost about the same as ALK.

Far cheaper to build it inhouse.
Two things. 
Fro the 4th or 5th time, Delta doesn't have the space to "build it inhouse" in LAX or SEA. They are waiting to start PDX and......SJC(?) from SEA simply because they have no room to do it with the gates on S and B. They are trying to get the US air gates on A, but even then, we are still only talking about 20-25 flights a day then they are out of room. (so 3-5 cities) 
and for LAX they don't have any room and no way to make room. 
 
Finally, good for the 739 cost, but Delta is outsourcing all this flying, how does an OO CR9 compare to a AS 738/739/73J?
 
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WorldTraveler said:
to be honest with you, meto, I would be very surprised if DL could ever obtain DOJ approval after becoming a solid number two carrier in direct competition to a number of key AS markets.

It also doesn't change the cost of acquiring AS is far higher than DL would spend in providing that feed on a long-term basis. DL has still committed less than about 20 large RJs to nearly all of the west coast domestic flying DL has added - and DL is not going to operate that flying at a complete loss.

A lot of us may be wrong but it is hard to imagine that DL still intends to save the AS-DL relationship on a long-term basis or expect to be able to acquire them after adding one market after another - and AS has done the same thing. The amount of overlap between AS and DL is very significant - precisely what the DOJ looks at in mergers.
Delta would cut that overlap so damn fast it wouldn't be fun. Then run to the DOJ and say "the forecast for these routes were all lose making. This is why we believe buying AS is the best bet, we will give up a few gates, promise to keep flying. Hell toss in a new New York and National slots too" 
holder and co would sign off on it just like they did US/AA. 
 
also IIRC, even with AS, DL would still be smaller than AA. 
 
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700UW said:
Guess joshie doesnt know the IAM won the outsourcing arbitration in the SEA case.
Then explain why the ramp is still outsourced. Just like the Airbus arbitration, as Bob said the union won but really lost since they never brought the work back in house.

Josh
 
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I don’t suppose any of us who participate in this forum have any real internal information about what is going on between AS and DL which is why it is fun to speculate and debate. As such, no one’s perspective is any more or less possible.

My perspective is that:
1. There is nothing that DL has gained in information or benefits from AS that AS has not also gained from DL. There is no reason to doubt that the relationship is fully within the laws of the US that happen to be involving a small and a very large legacy carrier.

2. DL has made it clear by its actions that its original intent with the AS relationship was for them to provide much of the non-DL hub feed DL needed for its SEA international operation. DL’s apparent number one complaint with AS is that they have not provided that feed or has charged prices way in excess of what it would cost to provide that feed inhouse. DL has also expressed its displeasure with AS’ non-exclusive codeshare relationships, including with foreign carriers who directly compete with DL on many of the flights that DL operates from SEA.

3. DL is using large RJs for much of its new SEA domestic flying – but that is precisely what they do in most new markets. DL’s traffic reports show that DL is consistently shrinking the overall size of the DCI program while growing DL mainline so clearly DL’s deployment of large RJs at SEA is balanced out by upgrades from DCI to mainline elsewhere on the DL system. The scope restrictions on the number of large RJs (which I support) ensures that DL must upgrade other flights in order to free up large RJs for new routes. There are dozens of cities that have mainline service from ATL that haven’t seen it for decades because of DL’s upgrades.

4. DL doesn’t need to obtain enough gates to duplicate AS’ operation. They only need enough gates to fly to the largest feed markets because there is a contract which requires DL and AS to each provide a certain amount of feed to each other or face contractual penalties. DL has now put in place schedules to deliver the vast majority of its domestic feed traffic at SEA. The flows that are left to AS to deliver represent about five percent of the traffic.

5. It is very possible that DL could upgrade a number of its large RJs from SEA to mainline aircraft down the road. Perhaps someone can say, but I doubt if DL is using any gates at SEA that can only handle large RJs but not mainline aircraft. Given that the large RJs are about half the size of an A320/M80, there is a lot of ability to add even more feed without adding a whole lot more flights.

6. There will be gates that will come available at both LAX and SEA. Other airlines can’t squat on gates or they will be lost back to the airport. The increased competition at both LAX and SEA will result in other airlines pulling back.

7. AS is a very expensive airline for its size. And there really isn’t a whole lot that DL would gain that DL can’t build itself except for LAX-MEX, a restricted access route which is fully allocated and which neither AA nor DL can fly but UA and AS can on the US side. AM in which DL owns equity flies it but DL can’t realistically push connections onto AM because they are on the other side of the airport.

I do not see any strategic way that DL could pull back its own flying in order to avoid DOJ objections to overlap between AS and DL without putting its longhaul international nonstops from SEA at risk. AS might decide to give up and become an exclusive partner for DL but DL isn’t likely to pull back its flights until it can determine that AS will really give DL the feed DL needs. DL’s moves right now, in my opinion, which others might agree with, is that DL’s actions are aimed to ensure that DL will have the feed it needs at prices that support DL’s international flights. I don’t believe that there is a scenario in which AS will all of a sudden stop decide to agree to a merger.

I’m not many people at other AS or DL really want to get into a merger unless it is a cordial and agreed to be in the best interests of both airlines. Right now, that seems to be a very distant reality.
 
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