Branson wants to try and sway Dallas for DAL gates

[WorldTraveler]

details of WN's DAL schedule

http://airlineroute.net/2014/05/18/wn-dal-oct14/

effective 13OCT14
Dallas Love Field – Baltimore 3 daily
Dallas Love Field – Chicago Midway 5 daily (6 daily from 02NOV14)*
Dallas Love Field – Denver 3 daily
Dallas Love Field – Las Vegas 3 daily (up to 4 daily from 02NOV14)*
Dallas Love Field – Los Angeles 3 daily (up to 4 daily from 02NOV14)
Dallas Love Field – Orlando 2 daily (3 daily from 02NOV14)*

effective 02NOV14
Dallas Love Field – Atlanta 4 daily*
Dallas Love Field – Ft. Lauderdale 2 daily
Dallas Love Field – Nashville 2 daily
Dallas Love Field – New York La Guardia 3 daily*
Dallas Love Field – Orange County 1 daily
Dallas Love Field – Phoenix 4 daily
Dallas Love Field – San Diego 2 daily
Dallas Love Field – Tampa 2 daily
Dallas Love Field – Washington Reagan 6 daily*

* Certain flights operated by Boeing 737-800


---

appears to be 58 new flights

 

[eolesen]

Maybe it's just me and my being less bullish on the potential for this watershed event, but I really don't see a lot to be excited about here.
6 frequencies to MDW and DCA are along the lines of what I was expecting.

Only 4 to ATL, LAS, PHX and LAX? Seems to be lower than what many might have expected. Maybe that's just reflective of what FWAAA's been saying about how long people are willing to put up with single cabin & unreserved seating on a longer flight.

I know it's just a starting point, and they will eventually add frequencies in a few markets as they get more of a feeling for demand, but this doesn't look like Waterloo to me.

Assuming that those 58 flights are being done without any drops to the in-perimeter cities (that probably won't be out until Monday), I'm not seeing where there's room for a lot more growth beyond this initial list of frequencies *and* these destinations. Without times, their gate utilization does looks like it will be maxed out during peak hours, likely near the expected 10x per gate.

I know someone will eventually start crowing about how that is low gate utilisation, but there are only so many local business travelers able to fly between 10am and noon, 2pm and 4pm, or between 8pm and the curfew. That turns the 17 hour operating day into about 10-11 hours of peak demand.

Looking forward to the full schedule being available on Monday...

 

[swamt]

swamt
Virgin's $79 fares were a one day promotion on the day they loaded their schedules.

thanks for the ad, E. Highlights how strongly DAL will be connected to WN's largest cities.

Ok thx, did mot know they were only a one day gig.  Wow,  even the call center didn't tell me this when I called them twice when I had no luck on my searches, they too took the time to look for the $79 fares instead of telling me they were only ran for the one day promo...

 

[jimntx]

Just idle curiosity on my part...
 
When WN starts international flying, does anyone know if they have plans to limit stage lengths?  I'm asking because there is a limit to how long you can expect people to be shut up in an aluminum tube at 30,000 feet with no food.  Even at AA we still get passengers on occasion that are "outraged" that there is no meal served on the flight, or that what is available is for sale.  (I had an Executive Platinum in F/C a few months ago who asked me "Will breakfast be served on this flight?"  It was a DFW-STL flight with 1 hour 15 minutes in the air!!! Yeah.  I know.  TWA used to serve a meal on MCI-STL and AA used to serve a drink and a snack on a DC-10 on AUS-DFW.  May I remind you that they didn't do that with FAA minimum crews on board.)
 
Does WN have "buy on board" plans for the future?  I can't imagine they would spend the money to gut and rebuild the galleys to accommodate meal service.  If nothing else, that would reduce seating because their current galleys have a much smaller footprint than ours at AA.

 

[eolesen]

Ok thx, did mot know they were only a one day gig.  Wow,  even the call center didn't tell me this when I called them twice when I had no luck on my searches, they too took the time to look for the $79 fares instead of telling me they were only ran for the one day promo...

Many times, the call center has no idea what's a promotion and what's the normal fare...

In VX's case, that might be exacerbated by the fact that they outsource their call centers to Xerox (SEA based, not overseas).

Getting slightly off the topic, it's not an uncommon phenomena for airlines to outsource that function, in VX's case keeping it onshore. When Virgin Australia launched, Carlson (one of the world's largest travel agencies, based in MSP) was managing their call centers. KLM has a subsidiary which manages call centers for several airlines (including DL) overseas.

 

[WorldTraveler]

given that, even if WN made dramatic cuts to their current schedule in order to add more new markets, they basically are limited at most to a half dozen flights/market if they are going to come close to add any more than 20 new markets.

Given that these new flights will start at a non-peak time and N. Texas isn't exactly a winter vacation wonderland, WN isn't interested in cutting flights that do work now to take on risks in starting new flights - and every flight presents a certain amount of risk. Add in that all of these new flights are longer stage length than the flights WN has operated from DAL and there are many more aircraft needed at a time when the 717s are leaving the fleet and WN is converting FL aircraft.

And this is just DAL. They also have DCA and some LGA on their plate which is very full.

WN will undoubtedly add more flights and they most certainly will do more than 10 flights/gate but they are doing what they can now to develop the market. By summer 2015, they will have more aircraft to work with including more 738s and frequencies in some existing markets will likely be trimmed.


When you consider that a WN 738 can hold as much local traffic as AA puts on 3-4 flights from DFW, they have more than enough capacity in the markets they are starting with to begin moving the N. Texas market.

It is still very likely that WN will be trimming its service in existing markets or being less aggressive with its winter flying to Florida in order to fund DAL and DCA.

Nearly all airlines, as well as many other companies, including WN, will not tell you via call centers what fares are available via their websites but often have some verbal advisory on their call center phone lines that lower fares may be available on their website.

As to flight length, WN offers flights longer than what they will offer from DAL and they don't appear to get any more complaints about service than other airlines. in fact, part of the reason why WN and other low cost carriers get better marks with customer service is that they do a far better job than the legacy carriers of promising only what they will deliver and then working to exceed those expectations. Legacy airlines have had to take more and more away from customers who still have expectations that the big 3 should offer better service than the low cost carriers - and in some cases they under deliver on those expectations.

Other low cost carriers fly long haul flights with minimal service and succeed. Most US airlines fly to Hawaii with the same service levels they offer on their domestic system even though many flights to Hawaii are longer than flights to Europe. Passengers understand that Hawaii service is not the same as flights to Europe, Asia, or Latin America even though in some cases the same aircraft are used.

 

[eolesen]

I know you seem to think that DAL is interchangeable with DFW for most people, but it isn't.

WN does have the ability to win some local share, but I'd be surprised if more than ~15% of the Metromess's population can be convinced that DAL is indeed more convenient to get to than DFW. And that's probably being generous. The rest are what I'd call "swing voters" who will book based off price and schedule more than anything else.

Great news for WN and the other airlines if they can change mindsets, but in the end, being able to drive freeway speeds the entire way into the airport and into the parking garage is an advantage they won't be able to promote.

 

[WorldTraveler]

we can test the theories when public data is available but the fact that WN as at least half of the combined DAL/DFW share in most of the markets that WN presently serves from DAL is evidence that the location of the airport is not the hindrance that you seem to think it is, esp. since WN's average fares in a number of those markets is higher than AA's from DFW

 

[SharoninSAT]

.
Gary's announcement… Stay tuned...
 
http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&fd=R&ct2=us&usg=AFQjCNGNb7jwECib7mY74f2as2mGzK3t6A&clid=c3a7d30bb8a4878e06b80cf16b898331&cid=52778508729796&ei=zAZ6U-jOEpCRgQf-t4DoAg&url=http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Southwest-Airlines-to-announce-new-non-stop-destinations-from-Love-Field-259781701.html

 

[SharoninSAT]

.
Gary's announcement… Stay tuned...
 
http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&fd=R&ct2=us&usg=AFQjCNGNb7jwECib7mY74f2as2mGzK3t6A&clid=c3a7d30bb8a4878e06b80cf16b898331&cid=52778508729796&ei=zAZ6U-jOEpCRgQf-t4DoAg&url=http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Southwest-Airlines-to-announce-new-non-stop-destinations-from-Love-Field-259781701.html

 
Dallas Morning News...
 
Southwest Airlines is offering special one-way airfares of $99 or less for new nonstop flights to 15 new cities from Dallas Love Field
starting Oct. 13, a move that could set off a fare war among rival airlines in the Dallas market.
 
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2014/05/southwest-airlines-publishes-special-fares-and-flight-schedule-for-15-new-cities-from-dallas-love-field-new-washington-national-flights-to0.html/

 

[eolesen]

Only new item I could see as far as DAL is concerned is starting DCA service in October vs. November.

 

[swamt]

 
 
Dallas Morning News...
 
Southwest Airlines is offering special one-way airfares of $99 or less for new nonstop flights to 15 new cities from Dallas Love Field
starting Oct. 13, a move that could set off a fare war among rival airlines in the Dallas market.
 
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2014/05/southwest-airlines-publishes-special-fares-and-flight-schedule-for-15-new-cities-from-dallas-love-field-new-washington-national-flights-to0.html/
 

Overall, Southwest plans to add up to 50 new destinations over the next few years as the carrier focuses on growth, Kelly said last week at the company’s annual shareholder meeting in Dallas. But he said he wants the airline to grow “thoughtfully” and “gradually.”
 
Glad to see the quote above from GK.  SWA has never really ever grown fast.  It has worked very well for us in the past.  I know this is an opening never seen before and we have to pounce just to protect local traffic as well as gates.  
Thx for the links Sharon...

 

[swamt]

Southwest details about new service from Dallas
 
At least SWA is willing to run the fare sale for 5 days instead of one.  I only see $99 fares, but thought I read that there were $69 and $79 fares as well.  Nice to also see the internationals getting added for the fall...