Brrrrr... Its sure is cold.....

[Hackman]

Do you realy think a 15 dollar an hour pay cut, or a lay off with a 35000 severence is actually more meaningful than watching your children ACTUALLY starve to death? Thats why claims of us "...taking food from the mouths of children" cracks me up. WHEN YOUR DAUGHTERS HAVE BEEN RAPED AND BUTCHERED RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU, TELL ME AGAIN HOW SCAbS ARE THE SAME AS RAPISTS AND CHILD MOLESTERS! Until then, your just spouting sound bites, and not saying a damn thing.
As we speak, there are places where people are so weak from hunger they just lay in the street and wait for death. Tell me again how horrible you got it here.
This weekend my brothers and I went to Cass corridor to pass out food and blankets to the homeless. Im gonna go out on a limb here, but I would venture to guess that NONE of those people we fed gave a bucket of warm spit that I was a scab. Are you really worse off than they? Have you really suffered so?
One of my above mentioned brothers is a dedicated union man. He knows full well how I got my job at Northwest, and yes, we do have some spirited debate about it. Sure, we are on opposite sides of the debate regarding the worth of organised labor, but ya know what? He's my brother, I love him, And I'd die for him. He'd do the same for me.
I cannot understand why terms on a labor agreement can generate such hatred. Have we so little to worry about in this country that we are willing to forsake life long friends over a some imaginary line?

Your stories are almost as sad and demented as PlaytheCods. I'll keep this some what short, because your justifying your actions as a scab, and its nothing but nonsensical scab blather.

Your brother is a dedicated union man huh? Well what if he was on strike at Scab Air? (Formerly NWA) Would you be so quick to cross what you call the "imaginary line" and take his job then? Would you deride your "union brother" how you have described the unionists on this board? Would you be so quick to risk his hatred then? Tough questions...and I really don't expect much of an answer.

Unionists fought and died for what you call the "imaginary line" :censored:. The 40 hour work week, safety regulations, child labor laws, vacations, sick time, employer paid health care, and so many other items we enjoy today were FOUGHT FOR WITH BLOOD AND EVEN DEATH OF UNIONISTS!!! You have assisted in lowering workers to the third world nation status we will someday become. The current path of the working middle class is disappearing at a fast rate, and you just increased the saw speed doin' the cuttin'. A big FU CSAR!!!! Lest I forget, I'm speaking to a worthless scab.

Your bootlicking scab actions has set our career field back a great measure. Will the Scab Air scabs soon raise the bar in pay and benefits and lead our career field into the future? Will you even up the $32 scab pay in the years to come? How will you bargain with ruthless Scab Air management? Or will you take the scaps they give you? Can we all look forward to living in a free hotel soon? Yippee.....

What you have done CSAR scab is to grovel at the feet of your master for your scab pittance.....and your lucky to have that. However, Neil "the butcher" Cohen will be cutting that soon enough. Do Marines grovel??? Not the ones I know of.

I am so glad I don't have a scab POS like you in my family. I would spit in your face. :down: :down: :down: :down:

 

[flight planner jim]

Holy smoke.

I just read in the newspaper that a UPS DC-8 made an emergency landing at PHL due to a fire on board.

I didn't realize they had SCABS working on their planes.

If they'd have had union employees doing their maintenance, this never would have happened.

When will these airlines learn?

 

[AP Tech]

The fire originated in the cargo compartment of the aircraft, one of the pods, some scab probably was shipping something he should not have been....ie Value Jet & 02 cannisters

 

[peaches]

Unionists fought and died for what you call the "imaginary line" :censored:. The 40 hour work week, safety regulations, child labor laws, vacations, sick time, employer paid health care, and so many other items we enjoy today were FOUGHT FOR WITH BLOOD AND EVEN DEATH OF UNIONISTS!!! You have assisted in lowering workers to the third world nation status we will someday become. The current path of the working middle class is disappearing at a fast rate, and you just increased the saw speed doin' the cuttin'.

I agree with you on this, Hackman. But I must play Devil's advocate here. I'm going to point out that many of the union people today don't fight as hard as they did back in the Depression. I'm going to create a hypothetical example that is firmly based on the realities today:

Person A is 59 years old. He's a staunch Union supporter. His children are grown, his house is paid off. Not too long ago he recieved a handsome inheritance when his folks died. He started working for the airline back in the late 1960's entry level. He voted for the B-Scale 20 years ago to keep his retirement high. He eventually got his A&P through OJT. Recently, his airline started laying off. He was offered early retirement and voluntary lay-off. He declined both offers.

Person B is 30 years old. He's got a stiff mortgage payment and $20,000 in student-loan debt from A&P school. He hired in at B-Scale about 5 years ago. He works at the same airline as person A. He wasn't given any choices, just a layoff notice. To cope with his staggering debt-load, he goes into survival mode. In survival mode, he takes a crummy 3rd party maintenance job.

Person A sits in his Ivory Tower and calls people like Person B a no-good scab. He's a total hyprocrite. He doesn't even address the fact that he voted in the B-Scale. He started back in the airline when an A&P License wasn't even a requirement, thus got his A&P for almost nothing. And, because he refused to budge his Goldbrick Gluts, he de-facto eats Person B's lunch. Do you think he gives a rip about Person B? Not a chance! Who's the REAL crumb here?

 

[Hackman]

Unionists fought and died for what you call the "imaginary line" :censored:. The 40 hour work week, safety regulations, child labor laws, vacations, sick time, employer paid health care, and so many other items we enjoy today were FOUGHT FOR WITH BLOOD AND EVEN DEATH OF UNIONISTS!!! You have assisted in lowering workers to the third world nation status we will someday become. The current path of the working middle class is disappearing at a fast rate, and you just increased the saw speed doin' the cuttin'.

I agree with you on this, Hackman. But I must play Devil's advocate here. I'm going to point out that many of the union people today don't fight as hard as they did back in the Depression. I'm going to create a hypothetical example that is firmly based on the realities today:

Person A is 59 years old. He's a staunch Union supporter. His children are grown, his house is paid off. Not too long ago he recieved a handsome inheritance when his folks died. He started working for the airline back in the late 1960's entry level. He voted for the B-Scale 20 years ago to keep his retirement high. He eventually got his A&P through OJT. Recently, his airline started laying off. He was offered early retirement and voluntary lay-off. He declined both offers.

Person B is 30 years old. He's got a stiff mortgage payment and $20,000 in student-loan debt from A&P school. He hired in at B-Scale about 5 years ago. He works at the same airline as person A. He wasn't given any choices, just a layoff notice. To cope with his staggering debt-load, he goes into survival mode. In survival mode, he takes a crummy 3rd party maintenance job.

Person A sits in his Ivory Tower and calls people like Person B a no-good scab. He's a total hyprocrite. He doesn't even address the fact that he voted in the B-Scale. He started back in the airline when an A&P License wasn't even a requirement, thus got his A&P for almost nothing. And, because he refused to budge his Goldbrick Gluts, he de-facto eats Person B's lunch. Do you think he gives a rip about Person B? Not a chance! Who's the REAL crumb here?

That's very good Peaches, the greed and stupidity is everywhere today. Look at how Scab Air puts out; Career at Major Airline"!!!! 32$hr!!!! Free Hotel!!!! Bonus!!!!! Free Chinese Tools!!!! ....and the scabs come a runnin' like rats to a rotten carcass...or should I say bankrupt failing airline. I was the person B years ago. I started with AA in the late 80's, fresh out of the USAF and school. Had student loans and and debt because I paid for my own school and living costs. I saw the old TWU Tulsa A-scalers at contract time, believers in whatever the TWU and management were selling, never giving a crap about the young guys or the future of our career field, "I got mine brother". To be sure, as long as they had enough left over for a new bass boat or a F250 dually, the Tulsa TWU believer is happy to say to himself; "At least I got me this here job". No matter how much the agreement sucked, or all the concessions hidden inside of it. I have never voted "yes" on any TWU contract, and I most likely never will.

Why do you think we have attempted to change the TWU? Of course this was impossible, we then tried to remove them, and we will try again. AMFA was the only organization with no paid organizers, a democratic constitution, and recall rights to the highest levels. I've never recieved a ballot for any TWU International lackey, and I never will. AMFA wanted to try to pull the industry together, and this is why so many airline mechanics are now AMFA members, the largest mechanic union today. I agree there are many problems with unions today, and the AFL-CIO is a worthless arm of big business. Why do you think the big airlines attempt to smash AMFA? Because they can't buy them, and they do put up a fight when cornered.

There is no good reason to be a scab. With the skills a AMT has, there are many opportunities if your willing to retrain and get out of the airlines, as many strikers have done at NWA. They refused to be part of Scab Air and ride the train again into the abyss. :down: :down: :down:

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

Poverty certainly changes your world-view. The Federal Government classifies me as "poor", however I am no way deprived. I have all my needs met. As far as this union vs scab debate goes, nothing is black and white. I know of a UAL pilot that crossed ALPA's line in order to maintain his medical insurance to care for his critically ill wife. Certainly his particular case deserves forgiveness. This issue was so poignantly portrayed in the play Les Miserables where the protagonist was imprisoned for stealing a loaf of bread in order to feed his starving family. I'm sure none of you would condone stealing most of the time, but there ARE exceptions.

With that being said, standing up for your rights is the cornerstone for freedom. In order to prevent this country from decaying into the conditions witnessed by a few of you that posted in this thread, the rampant corporate stealing and exploitation must be stopped. As I have said before and I will say again, each and every one of you must clearly define what you will, and will not stand for. This is purely a personal decision as each person's situation is different. No union can make this decision for you. I made a personal decision not to allow myself to be exploited in this industry (or any other). I took a huge paycut to work for myself. Many of you would not be willing to do this as I live hand-to-mouth with no guarentees as to my income. It hasn't been easy but is has been worth it.

I am considering a return to the industry in order get myself financially solvent again. However, I will choose very carefully if I decide to do so. I feel my credentials, experience and expertise are worth at least a comfortable middle-class salary. Otherwise I'm better off working for myself and maintaining my independance, despite the low income.

All of you must decide what your priorities are and do whatever it takes to be true to them. My hat is off to those of you that are doing that.

<salute>

Your stories are almost as sad and demented as PlaytheCods. I'll keep this some what short, because your justifying your actions as a scab, and its nothing but nonsensical scab blather.

Your brother is a dedicated union man huh? Well what if he was on strike at Scab Air? (Formerly NWA) Would you be so quick to cross what you call the "imaginary line" and take his job then? Would you deride your "union brother" how you have described the unionists on this board? Would you be so quick to risk his hatred then? Tough questions...and I really don't expect much of an answer.

Unionists fought and died for what you call the "imaginary line" :censored:. The 40 hour work week, safety regulations, child labor laws, vacations, sick time, employer paid health care, and so many other items we enjoy today were FOUGHT FOR WITH BLOOD AND EVEN DEATH OF UNIONISTS!!! You have assisted in lowering workers to the third world nation status we will someday become. The current path of the working middle class is disappearing at a fast rate, and you just increased the saw speed doin' the cuttin'. A big FU CSAR!!!! Lest I forget, I'm speaking to a worthless scab.

Your bootlicking scab actions has set our career field back a great measure. Will the Scab Air scabs soon raise the bar in pay and benefits and lead our career field into the future? Will you even up the $32 scab pay in the years to come? How will you bargain with ruthless Scab Air management? Or will you take the scaps they give you? Can we all look forward to living in a free hotel soon? Yippee.....

What you have done CSAR scab is to grovel at the feet of your master for your scab pittance.....and your lucky to have that. However, Neil "the butcher" Cohen will be cutting that soon enough. Do Marines grovel??? Not the ones I know of.

I am so glad I don't have a scab POS like you in my family. I would spit in your face. :down: :down: :down: :down:

Spit in my face? I doupt it, but your welcome to try.

Unionists fought and died for what you call the "imaginary line" :censored:. The 40 hour work week, safety regulations, child labor laws, vacations, sick time, employer paid health care, and so many other items we enjoy today were FOUGHT FOR WITH BLOOD AND EVEN DEATH OF UNIONISTS!!! You have assisted in lowering workers to the third world nation status we will someday become. The current path of the working middle class is disappearing at a fast rate, and you just increased the saw speed doin' the cuttin'.

I agree with you on this, Hackman. But I must play Devil's advocate here. I'm going to point out that many of the union people today don't fight as hard as they did back in the Depression. I'm going to create a hypothetical example that is firmly based on the realities today:
Outstanding post.
Person A is 59 years old. He's a staunch Union supporter. His children are grown, his house is paid off. Not too long ago he recieved a handsome inheritance when his folks died. He started working for the airline back in the late 1960's entry level. He voted for the B-Scale 20 years ago to keep his retirement high. He eventually got his A&P through OJT. Recently, his airline started laying off. He was offered early retirement and voluntary lay-off. He declined both offers.

Person B is 30 years old. He's got a stiff mortgage payment and $20,000 in student-loan debt from A&P school. He hired in at B-Scale about 5 years ago. He works at the same airline as person A. He wasn't given any choices, just a layoff notice. To cope with his staggering debt-load, he goes into survival mode. In survival mode, he takes a crummy 3rd party maintenance job.

Person A sits in his Ivory Tower and calls people like Person B a no-good scab. He's a total hyprocrite. He doesn't even address the fact that he voted in the B-Scale. He started back in the airline when an A&P License wasn't even a requirement, thus got his A&P for almost nothing. And, because he refused to budge his Goldbrick Gluts, he de-facto eats Person B's lunch. Do you think he gives a rip about Person B? Not a chance! Who's the REAL crumb here?

 

[peaches]

That's very good Peaches, the greed and stupidity is everywhere today. Look at how Scab Air puts out; Career at Major Airline"!!!! 32$hr!!!! Free Hotel!!!! Bonus!!!!! Free Chinese Tools!!!! ....and the scabs come a runnin' like rats to a rotten carcass...or should I say bankrupt failing airline. I was the person B years ago. I started with AA in the late 80's, fresh out of the USAF and school. Had student loans and and debt because I paid for my own school and living costs. I saw the old TWU Tulsa A-scalers at contract time, believers in whatever the TWU and management were selling, never giving a crap about the young guys or the future of our career field, "I got mine brother". To be sure, as long as they had enough left over for a new bass boat or a F250 dually, the Tulsa TWU believer is happy to say to himself; "At least I got me this here job". No matter how much the agreement sucked, or all the concessions hidden inside of it. I have never voted "yes" on any TWU contract, and I most likely never will.

Why do you think we have attempted to change the TWU? Of course this was impossible, we then tried to remove them, and we will try again. AMFA was the only organization with no paid organizers, a democratic constitution, and recall rights to the highest levels. I've never recieved a ballot for any TWU International lackey, and I never will. AMFA wanted to try to pull the industry together, and this is why so many airline mechanics are now AMFA members, the largest mechanic union today. I agree there are many problems with unions today, and the AFL-CIO is a worthless arm of big business. Why do you think the big airlines attempt to smash AMFA? Because they can't buy them, and they do put up a fight when cornered.

There is no good reason to be a scab. With the skills a AMT has, there are many opportunities if your willing to retrain and get out of the airlines, as many strikers have done at NWA. They refused to be part of Scab Air and ride the train again into the abyss. :down: :down: :down:

LOL, I narrowly escaped B scale by ONE WEEK when I hired on at UAL in 1984. I was too late to vote on the contract but was pissed at the senior IAM'ers that did. I too, started out in the USAF. UAL finally did get AMFA for the same reasons you want TWU out. As for person A, there's one thing you left off of his toy list....the behemoth land-yacht with bumper-sticker on the back that says "We're spending our children's inheritance"!!!!!! (Don't forget that HIS parents DIDN'T spend HIS inheritance.) However, this is another issue facing our country today....the yawning canyon of the Generation Gap...the Have's vs the Have Not's.

 

[peaches]

Unionists fought and died for what you call the "imaginary line" :censored:. The 40 hour work week, safety regulations, child labor laws, vacations, sick time, employer paid health care, and so many other items we enjoy today were FOUGHT FOR WITH BLOOD AND EVEN DEATH OF UNIONISTS!!!

Ok "peaches" husband here... Michael;
A couple of thoughts here...
I hate to be the one to give you the news.... But the 40 hour work week, safety reg's, vacations, etc had NOTHING to do with unions...... The 40 hour work week and vacations,and the highest wage in the automobile industry ($5 dollars a day),etc. BEFORE unions!!!! That's correct.. before the IAM/IAW got their nose involved....

Before you go screaming..... I have many years in both the automotive AND aviation fields.... as an AMT and Automotive Master Tech. Yes.. that means I am ex IAM....... So I do understand the pratfalls of IAM....But remember...don't be a lemming..and swallow the BS (or drink the Kool-Aid) just because some "union brother" says it's so...... be smart..and think for yourself. I've seen too many cases where the #### hits the fan....and all of a sudden that so called "brother" is no where to be found.... so when it comes to the bottom line?? you have to do what is "right" for you... and the "KEY" word is INTEGRITY....Doing the right thing... regardless of how it looks..or what others might think!!!
Michael(Graflexmaster) peaches husband

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Person A is 59 years old. He's a staunch Union supporter. His children are grown, his house is paid off. Not too long ago he recieved a handsome inheritance when his folks died. He started working for the airline back in the late 1960's entry level. He voted for the B-Scale 20 years ago to keep his retirement high. He eventually got his A&P through OJT. Recently, his airline started laying off. He was offered early retirement and voluntary lay-off. He declined both offers.

Person B is 30 years old. He's got a stiff mortgage payment and $20,000 in student-loan debt from A&P school. He hired in at B-Scale about 5 years ago. He works at the same airline as person A. He wasn't given any choices, just a layoff notice. To cope with his staggering debt-load, he goes into survival mode. In survival mode, he takes a crummy 3rd party maintenance job.

Beautiful post Peaches, I really do like how this is a perfect display of union brothers screwing union brothers. I just love how it shows the perfect "solidarity" of unionism. "An injury to one is an injury to all." Person A doesn't seem to be feeling anything as he sets his brother up for failure.

 

[Hackman]

Beautiful post Peaches, I really do like how this is a perfect display of union brothers screwing union brothers. I just love how it shows the perfect "solidarity" of unionism. "An injury to one is an injury to all." Person A doesn't seem to be feeling anything as he sets his brother up for failure.

'Cods, shut your hole. You have been a scab for how long...6 months? You don't know squat, only what you heard. Your MRO misses you, you'll be returning soon to that or another cess pool after your short stint as a Scab Air bootlicker.

BTW, enjoying the cold snap???

<salute>
Spit in my face? I doupt it, but your welcome to try.

Don't "doupt" it scab. Like I stated, I didn't expect much of a reply. h34r:

 

[peaches]

Beautiful post Peaches, I really do like how this is a perfect display of union brothers screwing union brothers. I just love how it shows the perfect "solidarity" of unionism. "An injury to one is an injury to all." Person A doesn't seem to be feeling anything as he sets his brother up for failure.

PTO, unions ARE good for demanding better pay and benefits for their workers. Unfortunately, their big flaw is the seniority system. The intent behind seniority was to insure fairness. However in application, it doesn't work that way.

For starters, the seniority system is actually good for the company (except for the GoldBricking SOB in my example, who, I consider no better than the suits that rip off their employees). The seniority system insures the company that their experienced workers won't leave. Whether on strike or layoff, you can bet the senior workers will come running back at the first opportunity. Furthermore, it limits job opportunities for those out of work because no one will hire you if you are subject to recall. Henceforth, the only place to go would be the 3rd party maintenance "scab" jobs because they are temporary. See the conundrum it leaves the laid off/striking worker in???

If you think Goldbricking is bad in maintenance, no where is it worse than in ALPA. ALPA really screwed over the Professional Flight Engineers (ones with A&P's and no pilot's licenses). As a P/FE I have no love for ALPA. When ALPA made the FE's "Second Officers" (ie you had to qualify as a line pilot to be an FE), they virtually eliminated them. Furthermore, ALPA added insult to injury when they insisted that the 60yo pilots have bidding rights to return to the FE seat (with Captain's pay, I might add. This is because the FAA will not allow you to hold a Class I Medical past 60, but you can hold a Class II until 65. FE's only need to hold a Class II). Technically, they are violating their OWN contract!!! If you must be a Second Officer, you must qualify as a line pilot. To qualify as a line pilot you must hold a Class I Medical. Every P/FE out there has grounds for a lawsuit to sue for the Engineer's seat on every ALPA airline. But, I highly doubt it'll happen because ALPA has bucks.

This is why I continue to say that everyone had to make choice for themselves. No one has your best interest in mind you YOU. Stand up for what you believe in, yes, but ultimately you have to decide for yourself.

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

Unionists fought and died for what you call the "imaginary line" :censored:. The 40 hour work week, safety regulations, child labor laws, vacations, sick time, employer paid health care, and so many other items we enjoy today were FOUGHT FOR WITH BLOOD AND EVEN DEATH OF UNIONISTS!!!

Ok "peaches" husband here... Michael;
A couple of thoughts here...
I hate to be the one to give you the news.... But the 40 hour work week, safety reg's, vacations, etc had NOTHING to do with unions...... The 40 hour work week and vacations,and the highest wage in the automobile industry ($5 dollars a day),etc. BEFORE unions!!!! That's correct.. before the IAM/IAW got their nose involved....

Before you go screaming..... I have many years in both the automotive AND aviation fields.... as an AMT and Automotive Master Tech. Yes.. that means I am ex IAM....... So I do understand the pratfalls of IAM....But remember...don't be a lemming..and swallow the BS (or drink the Kool-Aid) just because some "union brother" says it's so...... be smart..and think for yourself. I've seen too many cases where the #### hits the fan....and all of a sudden that so called "brother" is no where to be found.... so when it comes to the bottom line?? you have to do what is "right" for you... and the "KEY" word is INTEGRITY....Doing the right thing... regardless of how it looks..or what others might think!!!
Michael(Graflexmaster) peaches husband

<SLUTE>

 

[AP Tech]

Well Mr Peaches, you had better read up on your history and that of Unions. I am not a big fan of unions but they are a necessary evil. Without them your salary and your safety would be compromised. :down:

 

[peaches]

<SLUTE>

LOL Gyrene, is that "salute" or "slut"?????

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

LOL Gyrene, is that "salute" or "slut"?????

OH MY GOD!!!!! I am SOOO sorry! I think I'll shut up now!