City of Dallas tells Delta it can no longer fly out of Love Field

[WorldTraveler]

hey frugal,

in case you missed it AA/JL is a fraction of its self in the US-Japan market. Perhaps you also missed that JAL is facing opposition even in Japan due to its BK which resulted in more slots at HND going to NH than to JL. JAL may not be finished off just yet but they are hardly the leader they once were, carry less of the US-Japan market than DL, and have done absolutely nothing to help AA in Japan. If they had, AA wouldn't have cancelled one Japan route after another. and still lose money flying the Pacific.

Maybe all of those new China routes AA is starting are the ones that make money and it truly is Japan that is AA's bottomless pit.

UA is deathly afraid that their SFO hub will be bracketed to the north by DL's SEA hub and to the south by DL's LAX hub.

You do realize that as of this summer, DL offers more int'l seats from LAX than any other carrier, don't you?

 

[commavia]

United is "deathly afraid" of Delta's "hub" at SEA and "hub" at LAX.
 
Hahahahahahaha ... we got lucky, with not one but two hilariously ridiculous quotes today!

 

[topDawg]

good lord, Anyone wanna cliff notes the wall-o-texts from WT? 

Have you ever written anything without condition(s)?

Ever?

Just to get the laughs going: care to explain how DL can/will attempt to litigate access to DAL as a 'new entrant'?
 


B I N G O !!!!!!

 

I think you're correct. However the city of Dallas can just say that they've asked/approached WN and UA and both carriers told them that they do not have any vacant gates.

I thought (but I'm not in law) that is says Dallas must ask first then force later. 
 
I would be very surprised if DAL would legally be impossible for more than three airlines to fly into it..  
 

You are correct Dawg.  The agreement does state this.  However, I think there is a clause or para that also states that if another carrier is not using it's gates to the fullest than the city can make room for an incoming carrier by allowing 2 carriers to share gates.  This is what I really thought was going to happen.  Apparently the "other" carriers are going to fully utilize their gates all day, I know SWA will for a fact.
 Your also correct about the game being called just yet.  I fully expect Delta to fight as hard as they can to remain at LF (including suits) and the end game could end up being anything.  My celebration victory dance was merely a rub-in towards WT.  Let's all wait and see over the next few days and see if there was a red flag thrown for a review of the last play, IF there is ANY evidence of a reversal then it could very well get overturned.  However, all of that is between Delta and COD and has nothing to do with the other airlines unless they end up sharing gates...

agreed. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

look at the share that UA (via CO) had in NYC (not boardings since they run a whole lot more connecting passengers thru EWR than any other airline does thru NYC) and look at what they have now and it is absolutely accurate to say that UA is scared to death at the prospect that their prized network on the west coast will become as much under attack as it is in the NE.

Unlike NYC where AA isn't even trying to compete with DL, AA is very much slugging it out with UA - and AS, VX, and WN also have major networks - unlike what exists in NYC.

Yes, UA can see the increased competition coming in LAX as well as in SEA and if they aren't scared to death at the competitive prospects of having their SFO hub bracketed by two hubs, then they aren't alive.


it's fully to be expected that industry simpletons like swamt don't grasp the strategic implications of what is going on but the big 4 are absolutely going for each other's jugular like never before.

WN succeeded with the slot divestiture and with DAL in getting a little more breathing room for some shielded growth but even at DAL and DCA/LGA, WN won't have anywhere near the market size it had in other markets. Further, Latin America is highly competitive and will only become more so.

DAL is one skirmish in a new phase in the industry that will most definitely see losses by some carriers and gains by others.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

it's fully to be expected that industry simpletons like swamt don't grasp the strategic implications of what is going on but the big 4 are absolutely going for each other's jugular like never before.

 
You sir are certainly not an airline industry titan and are truly a pos for post(s) like this!

 

[swamt]

 

Ï know the topic is WAY over your head but know this is not a case where if it happened to AA and UA it would be great.

Competition is good for everyone and it is bad when it is hindered.

AA did its best to lock up the market in N. Texas for as long as it could and when it was forced to open it up, it did its usual under the table bargaining with WN to allow only as much competition into the market as possible.

In markets such as LAX and NYC where such Texas sized loads of crap don't work their magic, DL is increasing its presence in those markets despite AA's far longer and larger advantage. There are plenty of other markets where DL will continue its march and it will absolutely be to AA's detriment.

 
I'm glad you enjoyed it but the crew rest issue highlights exactly the way Parker does business and why AA employees will quickly be just as disgruntled as US employees were. When a contract as big as the FA contract comes at costs as high as Parker was able to pull off and the APFA is now trying to sell, there are lots of employees who will decide it is simply not worth maintaining their fleeting loyalty to mgmt.

And we all know the service levels that US was known for.

and know, AA FAs will not make more than DL FAs.

the only thing that is industry leading is the further race for the bottom - which is precisely what AA unions have been so well known for doing in the past.

You still far underestimate the impact WN will have on AÁ's revenues at DFW which will only increase the pressure on AA overall.

throw in DL's growing pressure on AA at LHR and in NYC and growing competition in Latin America and AA will long for the days when DFW was a monopoly hub.
 

what planet are you on?

of course it was a given the minute the DOJ blocked DL from participating in the gate auction that the only chance for DL to stay at DAL was by leasing at UA and DL knew full well that this exact scenario could happen.

And I most certainly acknowledged it at the time of the DOJ's decision regarding DAL.

What you cannot debate is that the only way that WN can win in the market is by finding markets where it can compete AWAY from real competition - WN's network is built around dominating markets and limiting the ability of other carriers to serve the market.

WN's intent all along was to lock up DAL. Congrats they did it.

They may gain one more large city where they can dominate the long haul local market - and that hurts AA far more than anyone else... but it leaves WN unable to effectively compete in the top markets of the country, including from ATL where they invested billions on FL only to dismantle route after route.

so, no, what happens at DAL is hardly indicative of what will happen on a larger scale. WN just gains one more market where it can hide but it ultimately cannot in the most competitive markets in the country.


and yes, Cranky got it right

"But if you’re United, why would you ever want to let Delta stay in Love Field if you can prevent it? You wouldn’t. And apparently United is so afraid of Delta being there that it’s willing to burn a ton of cash to make it happen"


not only will United burn a lot of cash to keep DL out of DAL but they will face a whole new onslaught of DL competitive routes that have far greater impact than what UA could possibly get from a few routes at DAL.

another very stupid competitive calculation by UA.

And he still flips-flops.  Delta admitted huh WT?  What about what you have been saying?  Delta has never admitted that they would not be able to compete at DAL, AND neither have you, don't you even try to come in here NOW and try to twist all this up in your favor.  YOU WERE WRONG!  DELTA WAS WRONG!!  And now Delta is gone from LF as I told you this could and will happen from the very day that it was announced that AA would have to divest the gates at LF.  Nice try buddy, but I will not let you do this.  I was right, you was wrong, just admit it, C'mon, you can do it.  SWA and Virgin gives thx to Delta for all the extra passengers they will now get after Delta just totally screwed a large number of passengers and completely screwed up alot of travel plans after 10-13-14.  BTW, what is the hell is Delta's plans from here?  They have a very short time to act. What will Delta do WT, pls tell us all what they will do.  You just gotta LUV this stuff man...

 

[swamt]

 
You sir are certainly not an airline industry titan and are truly a pos for post(s) like this!

Correct sir.  And he is only attacking me and my character because I am proving him wrong over and over again, as well as others are too.  This is the game he plays and I will not let it happen to me.  WT as well as his twin are out here to do several things, mislead, misdirect, confuse and lie to keep their agendas going for as long as they can and their empire is slowly falling apart...

 

[topDawg]

And he still flips-flops.  Delta admitted huh WT?  What about what you have been saying?  Delta has never admitted that they would not be able to compete at DAL, AND neither have you, don't you even try to come in here NOW and try to twist all this up in your favor.  YOU WERE WRONG!  DELTA WAS WRONG!!  And now Delta is gone from LF as I told you this could and will happen from the very day that it was announced that AA would have to divest the gates at LF.  Nice try buddy, but I will not let you do this.  I was right, you was wrong, just admit it, C'mon, you can do it.  SWA and Virgin gives thx to Delta for all the extra passengers they will now get after Delta just totally screwed a large number of passengers and completely screwed up alot of travel plans after 10-13-14.  BTW, what is the hell is Delta's plans from here?  They have a very short time to act. What will Delta do WT, pls tell us all what they will do.  You just gotta LUV this stuff man...

Send them to DFW and toss a little money at them. 
 
rebook/refund those that just can't go to DFW. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

And he still flips-flops.  Delta admitted huh WT?  What about what you have been saying?  Delta has never admitted that they would not be able to compete at DAL, AND neither have you, don't you even try to come in here NOW and try to twist all this up in your favor.  YOU WERE WRONG!  DELTA WAS WRONG!!  And now Delta is gone from LF as I told you this could and will happen from the very day that it was announced that AA would have to divest the gates at LF.  Nice try buddy, but I will not let you do this.  I was right, you was wrong, just admit it, C'mon, you can do it.  SWA and Virgin gives thx to Delta for all the extra passengers they will now get after Delta just totally screwed a large number of passengers and completely screwed up alot of travel plans after 10-13-14.  BTW, what is the hell is Delta's plans from here?  They have a very short time to act. What will Delta do WT, pls tell us all what they will do.  You just gotta LUV this stuff man...

 Of course DL didn't say that their ability to serve DAL was highly questionable if they had to sub-lease from UA but that was clearly the reality.

DL knew full well that UA could easily do exactly what it just did which was decide to terminate the lease.

The simpleton comment is absolutely accurate when you think it is something to LUV to kick a competitor out of the marketplace in order to avoid competing with them.

Given the pitiful track record that WN has in competing against DL, it is absolutely no surprise that WN wants to run and hide from DL - half of the number of flights in ATL in just two years with dozens of markets cut, SLC is a dot ON WN's map and nothing more.

You are the epitome of the myth of WN. they hide behind artificial barriers just as AA does. Now that WN is facing credible competition, including in the marketplace and on Wall Street, WN doesn't look so great after all.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Correct sir.  And he is only attacking me and my character because I am proving him wrong over and over again, as well as others are too.  This is the game he plays and I will not let it happen to me.  WT as well as his twin are out here to do several things, mislead, misdirect, confuse and lie to keep their agendas going for as long as they can and their empire is slowly falling apart...

 
 
how quickly you forget that you just posted that you are only going after the issue because you want to get back on me.

what's goose for the goose is good for the gander.

I am hardly a fan of 700 but if you aren't big and smart enough to stand up to a conversation with him without resorting to attacks on him, they you should stay off the board.
 

Send them to DFW and toss a little money at them. 
 
rebook/refund those that just can't go to DFW.

yes... and then redeploy the aircraft to routes that are equally important to DL's network and which DL does not currently serve - and which have KEY importance to AA, UA, and WN.

the list is not the same for each of those carriers but you can absolutely bet your bottom centavo that DL will be adding service in a number of "key industry competitive markets"

and based on the example of dozens of other markets, DL will do a far better job of increasing its presence in other carrier markets than those carriers will do in DL markets.

 

[robbedagain]

swamt  you may recall how DL was gonna file lawsuits etc over the US/AA merger crap    never happen    WT was proven wrong there   he never owned up to it..   So may be they will file a fictious lawsuit over this too    WT loves to make everything pro DL and the hell with all the others w no regards.  He must of been soo embarrassed by that      and now that you have proven him wrong again on this issue  its got to be eating at him...

 

[eolesen]

Perhaps DL's chickens have come home to roost. Good luck retaliating against UA.

 

[WorldTraveler]

no robbed, I said DL MIGHT, not WAS GONNA, do anything.

I can't and won't admit I am wrong because you don't understand the use of verbs in the English language and have chosen to misinterpret what I said based on that.

and, E, DL has had AMAZING luck competing with UA. You probably don't know or don't want to admit that DL has managed to grow its share of the west coast to Asia market by 5 share points in the space of the past two years - which doesn't even include this summer.

And that is on top of what DL has done in shifting share to/from NYC from UA to DL.

DL has been and will continue to be very successful at targeting UA in its highest revenue markets.

 

[eolesen]

DL had better hope they can get in front of the Ebola story.

 

[WorldTraveler]

you are peeing over yourself in glee with the hope that there are thousands of DL passengers that were infected on a DL plane.

DO you have any idea how the disease is actually spread?

there is a far bigger risk to AA by the fact that patient is in a Dallas area hospital if N. Texas becomes ground zero of an Ebola crisis.

You do know what happened to YYZ and AC don't you?