Dec 2012/Jan 2013 IAM Fleet Service Discussions
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Tim Nelson
Veteran
Mergers, elections, and negotiations
Mergers:
With the Passenger service election set at AMR for the CWA, I find it unlikely that AMR management would announce a merger prior to the results of the PAX service election. So anyone expecting a merger agreement might be a bit bummed. As far as the merger, any US AIRWAYS employee on the ramp should hope that US AIRWAYS is the one doing the buying. The AMR TWU contract gives sacredity to AMR rampers which would most likely force our union to trigger MBA. IMO, based on recent cases, the MBA would rule in favor of the AMR contract if AMR did the buying, but the favorable ruling might only mean the gain of an extra year or two for AMR rampers at non hubs. Not in any case would there be another TWA bloodbath. Regarding former TWA members, it is highly unlikely that any arbitrator would 'undo' previous seniority policies....but if so, then I would hope everyone could finally go by date of hire. Who knows?
Union Elections: IMO, the CWA ought to win the PAX service election at AMR since there is much uncertainty for employees going through mergers. As far as the MX group: IBT seems to have the edge at AMR as the TWU is a 'deal breaker' for many of the mx over there. The IBT will force an election prior to any representational disputes triggered after a single certificate. AMFA is in play also but IMHO it will finish second with the TWU a distant third. Actually, the TWU seems to have given the IBT soft support from what I can make out of their organizing drives. MX US AIRWAYS is solidly in IAM camp. The IBT's flirtation on US AIRWAYS property isn't taking off as it is at AMR. At any rate, if the IBT gets AMR and has some support at US AIRWAYS MX then the IBT's gambit to pick up all 12,000 MX may pay off.
AMR/US AIRWAYS fleet: Seniority will control this election, imo. The TWU's lack of accountability and dictatorship, imo, is a deal breaker for US AIRWAYS rampers. US AIRWAYS rampers aren't too thrilled with the IAM who always seems to have the concession stand open but at least the IAM constitution provides them voting powers to express their wants. OTOH, the vast majority of TWU members at AMR appear to hate the TWU. Those that I talk to say the union actually sucks. However, it's all about seniority and although there are some in ORD who are open to the IAM and would willingly sign an IAM card, most are going to pack together with the TWU based solely on seniority. DFW is strongly in TWU camp. MIA and ORD are more open based on the conversations I have had with some key folks who helped me try to oust the TWU at AMR 5 years ago. IMO, any election will be too close to call and if it's close I believe that will favor the IAM. The IBT has made inquiries into the ramp at US AIRWAYS and has circled this group at both airlines if it is successful with the MX first. IMO, I find any IBT involvement unlikely at this time.
United Ramp: IBT is set to commence a organizing campaign at United ramp in early spring, presumably March 1. They are anticipating the IAM leadership to fall far short on the promises in a presumed TA to be signed prior to March 1. If the IAM leadership does not finish and fails, then it will nonetheless still proceed with an organizing drive as the IBT feelers recognize that the IAM is losing support. The IBT already has over 3,000 cards in a soft campaign presently. However, it will need 5,000 more which, IMO, is a tall order.
With all the Right to Work laws coming into place, the airline/railway industry is the place to work at if one wants a labor agent representing them. Likewise, unions will be scrambling to increase their numbers in this industry since it is incredibly likely that they will lose members in such powerhouse labor states as Indiana and Michigan. And now with Ohio flirting with RTW this may be a total blow to labor as we know it.
Negotiations:
US AIRWAYS: Each update has said progress. Nothing could be further than the truth. All they have talked about is safety and some general tidbits. Nothing against the negotiation team but I don't believe management will move on any items until it knows any merger outcomes. If, there is a merger, then our hope should be that the IAM leadership doesn't take the same destructive path that it took on United when it conceeded the scope and United negotiation for a promise that backfired.
United: At this time, The IAM is the only bargaining agent that has not received anything over 4 years. Although each update over 4 years spoke of progress and "We are just this close", nothing has materialized due to the leverage lost during negotiations.
US AIRWAYS members need to watch closely on how your IAM leadership continues to mishandle the United talks and then review any T/A that may be signed. One thing is for sure, the strategy employed by the IAM leadership at United necessarily means the US AIRWAYS ramp will not see any contract for at least 5 years if there is a merger.
regards,
Mergers:
With the Passenger service election set at AMR for the CWA, I find it unlikely that AMR management would announce a merger prior to the results of the PAX service election. So anyone expecting a merger agreement might be a bit bummed. As far as the merger, any US AIRWAYS employee on the ramp should hope that US AIRWAYS is the one doing the buying. The AMR TWU contract gives sacredity to AMR rampers which would most likely force our union to trigger MBA. IMO, based on recent cases, the MBA would rule in favor of the AMR contract if AMR did the buying, but the favorable ruling might only mean the gain of an extra year or two for AMR rampers at non hubs. Not in any case would there be another TWA bloodbath. Regarding former TWA members, it is highly unlikely that any arbitrator would 'undo' previous seniority policies....but if so, then I would hope everyone could finally go by date of hire. Who knows?
Union Elections: IMO, the CWA ought to win the PAX service election at AMR since there is much uncertainty for employees going through mergers. As far as the MX group: IBT seems to have the edge at AMR as the TWU is a 'deal breaker' for many of the mx over there. The IBT will force an election prior to any representational disputes triggered after a single certificate. AMFA is in play also but IMHO it will finish second with the TWU a distant third. Actually, the TWU seems to have given the IBT soft support from what I can make out of their organizing drives. MX US AIRWAYS is solidly in IAM camp. The IBT's flirtation on US AIRWAYS property isn't taking off as it is at AMR. At any rate, if the IBT gets AMR and has some support at US AIRWAYS MX then the IBT's gambit to pick up all 12,000 MX may pay off.
AMR/US AIRWAYS fleet: Seniority will control this election, imo. The TWU's lack of accountability and dictatorship, imo, is a deal breaker for US AIRWAYS rampers. US AIRWAYS rampers aren't too thrilled with the IAM who always seems to have the concession stand open but at least the IAM constitution provides them voting powers to express their wants. OTOH, the vast majority of TWU members at AMR appear to hate the TWU. Those that I talk to say the union actually sucks. However, it's all about seniority and although there are some in ORD who are open to the IAM and would willingly sign an IAM card, most are going to pack together with the TWU based solely on seniority. DFW is strongly in TWU camp. MIA and ORD are more open based on the conversations I have had with some key folks who helped me try to oust the TWU at AMR 5 years ago. IMO, any election will be too close to call and if it's close I believe that will favor the IAM. The IBT has made inquiries into the ramp at US AIRWAYS and has circled this group at both airlines if it is successful with the MX first. IMO, I find any IBT involvement unlikely at this time.
United Ramp: IBT is set to commence a organizing campaign at United ramp in early spring, presumably March 1. They are anticipating the IAM leadership to fall far short on the promises in a presumed TA to be signed prior to March 1. If the IAM leadership does not finish and fails, then it will nonetheless still proceed with an organizing drive as the IBT feelers recognize that the IAM is losing support. The IBT already has over 3,000 cards in a soft campaign presently. However, it will need 5,000 more which, IMO, is a tall order.
With all the Right to Work laws coming into place, the airline/railway industry is the place to work at if one wants a labor agent representing them. Likewise, unions will be scrambling to increase their numbers in this industry since it is incredibly likely that they will lose members in such powerhouse labor states as Indiana and Michigan. And now with Ohio flirting with RTW this may be a total blow to labor as we know it.
Negotiations:
US AIRWAYS: Each update has said progress. Nothing could be further than the truth. All they have talked about is safety and some general tidbits. Nothing against the negotiation team but I don't believe management will move on any items until it knows any merger outcomes. If, there is a merger, then our hope should be that the IAM leadership doesn't take the same destructive path that it took on United when it conceeded the scope and United negotiation for a promise that backfired.
United: At this time, The IAM is the only bargaining agent that has not received anything over 4 years. Although each update over 4 years spoke of progress and "We are just this close", nothing has materialized due to the leverage lost during negotiations.
US AIRWAYS members need to watch closely on how your IAM leadership continues to mishandle the United talks and then review any T/A that may be signed. One thing is for sure, the strategy employed by the IAM leadership at United necessarily means the US AIRWAYS ramp will not see any contract for at least 5 years if there is a merger.
regards,
Tim Nelson
Veteran
Thanks,
well, time will tell. AMFA offers such a transparent craft union for those who want to follow the craft union template like the other ones at AMR and keep control. Certainly, the stews and pilots craft unions at AMR came out much farther ahead than the TWU. I think the IBT would have a shot though at AMR, and dare I say with the TWU blessing, if it wasn't so arrogant. Sometimes being much bigger produces arrogance where they think folks are ignorant if they choose other options.
I know for a fact that the IBT had a meeting at US AIRWAYS ORD with the MX, haven't heard of amfa doing anything at US AIRWAYS. At any rate, imo, US AIRWAYS MX [the majority] support the IAM. The IAM has been better for US AIRWAYS MX than it has been for US AIRWAYS ramp at least.
regards,
Jester
Veteran
Tim,
Good seeing you again.
As with all the stories about a merger and possible downsizing of various stations and alike, is there a seniority list for the various bases or even a national list for US FSAs which could be reviewed online? I might need to consider my options in the near future. Thanks.
Good seeing you again.
As with all the stories about a merger and possible downsizing of various stations and alike, is there a seniority list for the various bases or even a national list for US FSAs which could be reviewed online? I might need to consider my options in the near future. Thanks.
Tim Nelson
Veteran
Yes, contact your local chairperson, he/she has one that can be emailed to you. It's current as of June 30, 2012. A new one will come out January 31, 2013.
Hopefully, no more downsizing IAM stations but the season for downsizing starts in April announcements. Last year was the exception and grievances were filed but later tossed out when the IAM reneged on the arbitration and instead supported the company bosses by just paying the affected members upwards of a one time $500 to keep the contracting out service in tact doing their jobs.
regards,
Tim Nelson
Veteran
UA voted the IAM out also at MX. Looks like this is going to shape up like a classic battle between the TWU/IBT/AMFA/IAM. All 4 will have something to win or lose. Whichever union can build bridges the best is the winner. 12,000 MX members are on the line and although the TWU may appear to have the inside track, I wouldn't bet on it. The IAM, imo, does have a solid base at US AIRWAYS MX so it won't need anything close to the majority if it can trigger yet another election after single certificate [presuming a merger].
To be sure, imo, I think the IBT/AMFA will trigger an election prior to any single certificate and the winner will most likely be IBT or AMFA. Then, imo, those who will be disgruntled with the winner of the AMR election will most likely gravitate to the IAM [if not for any other reason other than spite]. So, I doubt the IAM has any problems getting additional cards signed when it is time. And, IMO, the IAM has a better hedged position with the US AIRWAYS baseline of support, since there will be nukes flying from 4 different camps.
The only thing throwing a monkey wrench in all of this is the IBT card campaign that is presently happening at US AIRWAYS MX. That, however, seems to be going very slow.
regards,
You are the Overspeed of the IAM, the IAM contracts are substandard and lagging the industry by a wide margin. Remember the poll you started a few months ago? Few people at AA like the IAM, for better or worse they see the IAM as a SCAB union for helping NWA bust AMFA in 2005 and for screwing over the TWA workers even if in the interim the legacy AA workers had elevated seniority. I can link more of the posts and threads if you'd like but you should be able to find them easily. Keep ignoring what others have said and rationalize the IAM's actions since after all the IAM can do no wrong.
Josh
Put up all the IAM CBAs against AMFA, IBT and TWU and you might be a little surprised.
But once again you spread misinformation and dont care when you are shown to be wrong.
The IAM didnt scab at NW, how many times are you going to post lies?
The ancillary language was all ready in the IAM FSA CBA, and was removed from the AMFA/NW CBA.
Why dont you post facts and reality instead of lying all the time, you must have been spurned by an IAM represented person in your life since you spread lies and hatred?
The TWA seniority issue went to arbitration and was decided there, and AA told TWA if ALL the unions didnt give up there LPPs they wouldnt have bought TWA.
But once again you spread misinformation and dont care when you are shown to be wrong.
The IAM didnt scab at NW, how many times are you going to post lies?
The ancillary language was all ready in the IAM FSA CBA, and was removed from the AMFA/NW CBA.
Why dont you post facts and reality instead of lying all the time, you must have been spurned by an IAM represented person in your life since you spread lies and hatred?
The TWA seniority issue went to arbitration and was decided there, and AA told TWA if ALL the unions didnt give up there LPPs they wouldnt have bought TWA.
IAM contacts at USAir especially are lagging the industry by a wide margin in terms of pay, benefits, and scope. Keep carrying on that the IAM has a MEPP, sure but there are more to the contacts than the pension. And as Kev keeps saying going forward unions should be less focused on pensions and giving away the store to save the pension.
Josh
Josh
If the IAM did such a good job for the CO FAs why did they get decertified? I know CO EWR based FAs and they are all glad the IAM is out, the ones I know would prefer to be non-union than join the IAM or AFA. Yeah local lodge 2339-N has done such a great job for the FAs.
Josh
Josh
ChockJockey
Veteran
pjirish317
Veteran
- Sep 21, 2007
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Tim,
You have "first hand knowledge" of these accusations? Are you in negotiations with US for fleet? Oh that's right you LOST the election, so I imagine you are out of the loop on the negotiations as you burned EVERY bridge with the folks in office now. So any "truths" coming out of your mouth are just speculation on your part as a way to try to discredit the current officers and negotiating team. I know, I know, if you had won, you personally could get us everything we lost in BK1 and BK2, plus the moon. Seriously, where do you get this stuff? And as far as the UA negotiations, how exactly does that apply to US fleet's negotiations? Do you know their stragedy? Do you know what is being discussed between the negotiating team? But I'm sure being the omnipotent Tim Nelson, you will have an answer for everything, and how YOU could do it better, and more effectively. You would make this company BOW DOWN TO YOU, the great and powerful OZ......
h34r: :blink: h34r:Like all other politicians, Tim can say anything he wants that can't be proven. Who's to say he's wrong? Or right? Ask any conspiracy theorist what's at Area 51 and they'll say "Aliens. LOTS of aliens!" Then when you tell them "No there's not, the government says so." The comeback is "Of course they did, that's what they WANT you to think." The only way to prove or disprove it is for the people that refuse to talk about it to talk, and then whatever they say is a lie, unless it's what you wanted to hear.
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