Defined Pension Liability Breakdown

TWU informer

Veteran
Nov 4, 2003
7,550
3,767
Does anyone know of a way to obtain a break down the AMR pension liability by work group?

I would be interested to know the total liability and the breakdown of each work group against that total liability.

Pilots liability
F/A liability
Mechanic and Related liability
Groud Worker liability
Management liability
AA liability vs Eagle liability

It seems this information should be made public, but I have not a clue how to obtain it.

Maybe since the "unions" have access to "the books", then we could get our "union" to provide this information?
 
TWU informer said:
Does anyone know of a way to obtain a break down the AMR pension liability by work group?

I would be interested to know the total liability and the breakdown of each work group against that total liability.

Pilots liability
F/A liability
Mechanic and Related liability
Groud Worker liability
Management liability
AA liability vs Eagle liability

It seems this information should be made public, but I have not a clue how to obtain it.

Maybe since the "unions" have access to "the books", then we could get our "union" to provide this information?
[post="305176"][/post]​
On Jetnet under benefits, then pensions on left side, they do give you link to the funded numbers for 2003. Only the pilots and F/A's have the funding percentage, with both at 67% funded. They have 1.7 billion and around 1 billion respectively funded for them. The twu workers have 1.9 billion for all ground workers and management/agents/non management have 2 billion but no word on the percentage funded.
 
TWU informer said:
Maybe since the "unions" have access to "the books", then we could get our "union" to provide this information?
[post="305176"][/post]​
That's probably the best way to get recent information given that the company's financial statements only show all of the labor groups added together.
 
TWU informer said:
Does anyone know of a way to obtain a break down the AMR pension liability by work group?

It seems this information should be made public, but I have not a clue how to obtain it.

[post="305176"][/post]​

www.freeERISA.com contains the Forms 5500 filed by each plan for 12/31/2003. Registration is free. Problem is - 2003 data is the most recent available.

Form 5500 contains the funded percentage for the beginning and the end of each plan year; the first percentage below is as of 1/1/03 and the second percentage is as of 12/31/03:

APA: 67.8% 76.8%
TWU: 70% 80.1%
APFA: 67.4% 75.6%
Agents/Management: 77% 88%

Given that this data is nearly two years old, and that AA has already contributed $754 million to the plans in 2004 and 2005 (and will have contributed a total of $777 million to the plans for those two years by 12/31/05), it is likely that these funding percentages will have increased.

Total plan assets were $6.230 billion at 12/31/03 and had increased to $7.335 billion at 12/31/04, an increase of 17.75%. Not too shabby.
 
Thanks for the information.

But what I am really looking for is the percentage of total liability per work group against the fund.

In other words, of the $7.335 billion at 12/31/04, what percentage of liability against the amount does each work group own?
 
TWU informer said:
Thanks for the information.

But what I am really looking for is the percentage of total liability per work group against the fund.

In other words, of the $7.335 billion at 12/31/04, what percentage of liability against the amount does each work group own?
[post="305938"][/post]​


Eagle = 0%

Good luck with the rest.
 
will fix for food said:
Eagle = 0%

Good luck with the rest.
[post="306075"][/post]​

Well you can thank the TWU for that.

By the way your 2 hours per month in dues help provide one of the most generous pension packages out there for the TWU International. Their 2.5 multiplier times their best year is just the start. Every year they get a compounded increase of 5% on that pension for the "cost of living". Isnt it amazing how they get a Cola that exceeds the CPI but we get increases that are less than half the historical CPI average?

So now you know where your dues are going.

So the same guys that made you vote twice for an inferior agreement that provided you guys with no pension are using your money to provide themselves with an extremely generous package.

In fact with the rising liability of this very generous pension that you pay for it is essential that the TWU obtain more and more members at ANY cost.

The information I've provided can be obtained from the DOL, all you have to do is request form 5500 for the latest year and they will send it to you for free.
 
Bob Owens said:
Isnt it amazing how they get a Cola that exceeds the CPI but we get increases that are less than half the historical CPI average?

[post="306323"][/post]​

Bob, I believe the COLA you mention is with reference to the TWU apparatchiks' pension. When you say "we get increases that are less than half the CPI" are you referring to our pay or our pension? I am not aware or any increases to our pension.
 
Wretched Wrench,Sep 28 2005, 03:38 AM]
Bob, I believe the COLA you mention is with reference to the TWU apparatchiks' pension.


The pension not only applies to so called "elected officials" but also appointees and other employees of the International.

When you say "we get increases that are less than half the CPI" are you referring to our pay or our pension?

Our pay.
 
Bob Owens said:
Wretched Wrench,Sep 28 2005, 03:38 AM]
Bob, I believe the COLA you mention is with reference to the TWU apparatchiks' pension.
The pension not only applies to so called "elected officials" but also appointees and other employees of the International.

When you say "we get increases that are less than half the CPI" are you referring to our pay or our pension?

Our pay.
[post="306763"][/post]​

So then, TWU pensions use a multiplier of 2.5% compared to our 1.66%. That is 50% more.

Their pension is calculated on their best year. Ours is the average of the last four. Big difference there, too. Over 17%.

And their pension is increased by a 5% COLA yearly, which would result in a 100% increase in your pension in 14 years. We get 0%.

Added together, the numbers are astounding. .....and shameful.

Another case of "leading by example".

Kinda like the pigs in Orwell's Animal Farm.

.
 
Wretched Wrench said:
So then, TWU pensions use a multiplier of 2.5% compared to our 1.66%.  That is 50% more.

Their pension is calculated on their best year. Ours is the average of the last four. Big difference there, too. Over 17%.

And their pension is increased by a 5% COLA yearly, which would result in a 100% increase in your pension in 14 years.  We get 0%.

Added together, the numbers are astounding. .....and shameful.

Another case of "leading by example".

Kinda like the pigs in Orwell's Animal Farm.

.
[post="306768"][/post]​


Thats only part of it.

According to the "Vermont Plan" the company pays the TWU $3.1 million a year. These monies are paid to union officials. Local Presidents and International officials.

So people such as Little, Gless, Yingst etc are not only earning towards their TWU pension but they are still earning towards their AA pension. For instance if you look at the 2004 LM-2 filed by the TWU to the DOL it lists Gless' salary at around $60k. (The 2003 LM-2 did not list Gless at all).He testified under oath that he gets paid by the company and he earns around $120,000. So he must get $60k from the company, and $60K from the union. Talk about a sweet deal! This way he is double dipping. Still earning his AA pension (and salary)based on a mechanics pay rate while simultaneously earning a pension from the International. As long as he takes his full $120,000 from the TWU for one year his pension will be based on that and his AA pension will be based on his best four out of 10 like ours.

Both Gless and Yingst reportedly told members that they took pay cuts too. Well if they were getting paid by AA this makes sense. As a matter of fact they must be getting paid by AA if they took pay cuts. It means that the money they recieved from AA was in addition to the salary reported on the LM-2. So Gless screwed himself out of $60k through his testimony. Yingst on the other hand is likely getting his $130K? as shown on the LM-2 PLUS another $60k from AA. The same goes for Little and the other AA/TWU International members. When you consider that AA claimed the amount was $3.1 million but we only have 21 Local Presidents the International officers on company pay accounts for the shortfall (21 x $60k =$1,260,000 -$3.1 million=-1.84 million). I also say this because Yingst reportedly told a member of 514 that he took a paycut too, but it was less, around 7%. Well if have two paychecks coming in for a total of $210,000 and take a 17.5% paycut on one of those checks then it makes sense that your total paycut would only be around 7%.

There is a couple of things you also must consider here.

These payments are illegal, the company did not have to go BK in order to stop them. If the TWU did not give the company everything they wanted the company could have terminated these payments and the TWU could do nothing about it.

The company included terminating these payments in the Vermont Plan, no doubt to let the International and the Local Presidents know that if they did not give the company everything they wanted that they personally stood to lose more than if they did.

So in order to keep 82.5% of their illegal payments from the company coming, which is better than nothing, which is what would have happened if they did not meet the company's demands, the International pushed through the biggest concessions package in history. So large that Jim Little even stated that they were "more than adequate". This could also explain the loss of holidays, sick time, vacation, double time etc. None of the BK carriers even sought these concessions until the TWU gave them to AA. We lost those things instead of a straight paycut like the APA because as International officials they recieve those benifits from the International, not the company, so by slashing our benifits, which they get from the International, they minimized their paycuts.