Delta Air Lines to Build Heavy Maintenance Facility in Queretaro, Mexico

[Kev3188]

Translation: "Know your place, boy." Fun!

Anyway...

Money is definitely a powerful influencer, but at some point the veneer wears off (even with the constant messaging/operant conditioning we're flooded with). In ever increasing numbers people are realizing that the "chance" they gave the company isn't working.

When you're able to wrap your head around the idea that most of the calls for representation today are not tied directly to monetary compensation, let us know.

P.S. The AFA-TWU combo (ADFA) isn't news; it's been brewing for awhile.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Hey, Kev,
you've tried the "know your place" routine enough times... other than garnering a few positive votes for you, it hasn't changed a thing - esp. since that is not what I have said.
But, hey, keep using failed strategies if that is what you need to do...what was that definition of insanity again?

I'm sure there are DL employees who want a union because they think they can overcome the SEVERE and OPPRESSIVE (yeah right) work rules at DL.... yet the majority of YOUR PEERS are smart enough to be able to figure out and work w/in the rules.. that is why the unions have continually failed to win any further unionization elections at DL.

Oh, and the wood behind the veneer is higher pay and more retained jobs than at any other network/legacy carrier. DL employees- peers of you and Dawg - are smart enough to figure out that unions have saved nothing compared to DL.

Glad to know that TWO unions will waste their money trying to unionize DL FAs... I'd like to sit on the sidelines over the fight for dues money between them.

 

[Kev3188]

Hey, Kev,
you've tried the "know your place" routine enough times... other than garnering a few positive votes for you, it hasn't changed a thing - esp. since that is not what I have said.

It's *exactly* what you're saying.

If the shoe fits...

Oh, and the wood behind the veneer is higher pay and more retained jobs than at any other network/legacy carrier.

You're a numbers guy; show everyone how many RFT employees there are now in 120 compared to, say, 3-4 years ago, then do the same with Ready Reserves. They're not "retaining" anything. The benefitted positions are simply attriting away. All new hiring in 120 (and 125) is done with RR's, as is almost all backfilling. Let's also remember that DL had already taken a buzz saw to most places years ago; something companies like AA are only now doing through the 1113c process.

DL employees- peers of you and Dawg - are smart enough to figure out that unions have saved nothing compared to DL.

There's no comparison. There's no "line to hold" at DL. All they have to do is move the goal posts a little whenever they want.

Just keep writing those hagiographies to Ma Delta, and I'll just keep on refuting 'em with a boring ol' dose of reality...

 

[WorldTraveler]

No, Kev, it is anything BUT boring... I guess that's why we both keep at it.... you ARE my favorite online debate partner.

The shoe does not fit even though you keep trying to force it on.

Yep, DL is allowing FT positions to attrit away while other carriers are laying off and terminating positions.

But your perspective only applies to ACS since the FAs that will be hired will be FT. Maybe there's a few DGS mechanics but those that support the $500M in insourcing revenue DL brings in are FT, licensed mechanics. Airplane drivers? They are FT too.

Keep telling me how those obstacles DL has thrown in the way of your plans to increase unionization have worked out.... you may be smarter (already had a good dose of that before) but you haven't been stemmed the loss of union paying members.

Happy day to you!

Snow up there, yet?

 

[Airlinelifer]

WT, Did you ever have an On-the Job injury while you were employed at D E L T A ?

 

[WorldTraveler]

can't say I did... in fact, I had less than 10 days of sick time in 22 years... and one of them was for a "concert day" that I couldn't get "legally".

I'm just healthy and apparently safety conscious too.

Have you raised the question based on your belief that DL's OJI policies are insufficient?

 

[Kev3188]

Yep, DL is allowing FT positions to attrit away...

So which is it? Are they "retaining" positions, or letting them vanish into the ether?

Keep telling me how those obstacles DL has thrown in the way of your plans to increase unionization have worked out....

Like I already said; they're not throwing 'em up, they're helping take 'em down...

Snow up there, yet?

Nope.

WT, Did you ever have an On-the Job injury while you were employed at D E L T A ?

Ah yes... Another prime example of the "superior employment experience" we all now get to enjoy.

I'm just healthy and apparently safety conscious too.

So are most everyone else. No one goes to working planning to get hurt.

 

[WorldTraveler]

....then it should be inconsequential in the eyes of most employees how well DL's OJI protections stack up to other airlines, right?

Just to clarify again, I have never said that DL is about protecting FUTURE jobs... in fact, they have consistently used their labor flexibility to protect the jobs of CURRENT EMPLOYEES. Unions are focused on trying to protect current jobs PLUS future work - and the result is that companies with a heavy union presence CUT BOTH which is why DL employees have consistently fared better WRT to job protection than their peers at other airlines.

WN just reported its quarterly financials and accrued $29M in profit sharing for its 46K employees- or about $630 in profit sharing per employee for the quarter. Keep that number in mind as the other carriers report and we'll see how WN's profit sharing payouts compare with others, including DL's, otay?

BTW, good morning to you.

 

[Kev3188]

....then it should be inconsequential in the eyes of most employees how well DL's OJI protections stack up to other airlines, right?

Wrong.

Your logic would imply that no one ever gets hurt.

 

[WorldTraveler]

didn't say they didn't, even to the most safety focused employees. That is why they are called accidents.

But the vast majority of employees don't get hurt and are able to work within the time away policies, whether for voluntary absence or for injuries on the job, so the notion that an inferior OJI policy would be enough to move people to support a union is what is inconsequential.

While airlines have historically had leave benefits (voluntary and OJI) that are above average for the the general workforce, DL's policies are more in line with American business as a whole. The DOL has extense documentation on benefits and it is obvious that DL's leave policies are in line with the general workforce rather than with its peer companies in the airline industry.

Since everyone does care about vacation - about the only near-universally used fringe benefit - then employees will factor in leave benefits along w/ the rest of their employment package.
For the vast majority of employees, they will choose job stability and higher wages over non-cash benefits including leave benefits and esp. including OJI benefits which most people don't think focus on.

At the end of the day, higher base salary is the most focused on aspect of employment followed by profit sharing and other monetary compensation... then you get into benefits of which vacation is probably the most sought after (but notice that all of Dawg's focus on DL's inferior vacation really only applies to the highest seniority employees who have obviously long ago made the decision to stick around or leave a company) and then medical benefits - which are not universally used by all employees... and then on down w/ other benefits.

There is pretty specific research that has been done on what employment components matter the most to people. It is precisely because DL knows that research and has done enough of its own that is able to create employment terms which satisfy MOST people enough to keep them from believing they can get a better deal w/ a union....

Compensation strategy is a whole lot more scientific and a whole lot less emotional than many people think....

 

[Kev3188]

didn't say they didn't, even to the most safety focused employees. That is why they are called accidents.

But the vast majority of employees don't get hurt and are able to work within the time away policies, whether for voluntary absence or for injuries on the job, so the notion that an inferior OJI policy would be enough to move people to support a union is what is inconsequential.

Not when it's you that is hurt as has to deal with a less than "superior employment experience."

...For the larger populace, it's merely another in a long list of things that are worse now than they were before.

As for the rest of that, I'm well educated in compensation models, and how they're derived, thanks...

 

[Kev3188]

can't say I did... in fact, I had less than 10 days of sick time in 22 years... and one of them was for a "concert day" that I couldn't get "legally".

Sidebar: NW had perfect attendance passes. DL got rid of them. Shame, really...

Another "superior employment experience."

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, I agree that perfect attendance awards of one type or another should have been retained... the RIGHT behaviors should be reinforced. I don't know why DL got rid of them.

I'm sure there are a very small number of employees who will perceive DL's OJI coverage as sub-standard. Remember, alot of DL employees have never known another experience and an even smaller number have any reason to think about OJI coverage until they need it.
Once again, DL's coverage is comparable to other similarly sized companies in general American business.

Since you understand compensation models, then you shouldn't be surprised that the vast majority of employees are not going to choose a superior protection plan that benefits a small handful of people at the cost of a benefit that can benefit far more people.

The simple fact is that DL has created compensation packages that reflect the desires of the majority of the people. The outliers regarding OJI coverage and the 5th and 6th week of vacation which affect a small percentage of people simply don't move the needle of opinion as much as extra pay for all employees.

BTW, WN's CEO has just said that he expects fuel prices to continue to be problematic going forwarding including in the 4th quarter - that we are now in..... if true, and I'm sure he knows, that just makes the outlook for DL employees even better considering that DL mgmt has taken a different approach to managing fuel costs, one which they say has already exceeded their expectations WRT to cost savings. Since you are covered by profit sharing, that's money in your pocket... and tens of thousands of your coworkers that contributes to a superior employment package for all of you who are on DL's payroll.

 

[Kev3188]

yes, I agree that perfect attendance awards of one type or another should have been retained... the RIGHT behaviors should be reinforced. I don't know why DL got rid of them.

Same reason they got rid of almost everything even remotely related to NW...

I'm sure there are a very small number of employees who will perceive DL's OJI coverage as sub-standard. Remember, alot of DL employees have never known another experience and an even smaller number have any reason to think about OJI coverage until they need it.

You don't need to have experienced an OJI to know the current policy is inferior.

The simple fact is that DL has created compensation packages that reflect the desires of the majority of the people. The outliers regarding OJI coverage and the 5th and 6th week of vacation which affect a small percentage of people simply don't move the needle of opinion as much as extra pay for all employees.

No, what they are quite good at is selling cost-neutral packages as improvements to the masses.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I believe the perfect attendance passes left DL before the NW merger... but you or someone else can confirm.
BTW, DL has far more red in its color scheme than it ever had. DL has obviously put plenty of red INTO its operations - and it isn't just a literal color.

If DL employees believe the marketing hype the company is using to sell its compensation packages, then they are being effective at what they are doing.
I encourage you once again to insert yourself into that communication process and help provide a level of insight they apparently do not see but you do.
You clearly are intelligent, articulate, and capable of providing a "dissenting opinion."