Delta Air Lines to Build Heavy Maintenance Facility in Queretaro, Mexico

[Kev3188]

I believe the perfect attendance passes left DL before the NW merger... but you or someone else can confirm.

Dunno about the Widget side, but getting rid of them post-merger (and rendering existing ones almost worthless) occurred pretty early.

If DL employees believe the marketing hype the company is using to sell its compensation packages, then they are being effective at what they are doing.

Effective... Masterful... Diabolical...

I encourage you once again to insert yourself into that communication process and help provide a level of insight they apparently do not see but you do.

Pass. No room at the inn for anyone who hasn't yet outsourced their cognition...

You clearly are intelligent, articulate, and capable of providing a "dissenting opinion."

Dissent isn't looked at as an asset here; it's seen as a threat. Like I've said before; creative conflict doesn't exist at DL...

 

[WorldTraveler]

I think you underestimate your potential to constructively effect change - to the detriment of yourself and others who could benefit from your contribution.

But the larger question is, if you really believe that you can't do anything about the situation you are in (I don't believe it BTW), how do you face the prospect of X number more years in a situation that you don't believe in?

Dissent perhaps isn't a welcome virtue - constructive criticism is hard for many to receive - but there ARE ways that you can contribute and it would be a SHAME if you did not.

While you may think our interactions here are criticisms of what you do and believe, I would hope you see them as an opportunity to sharpen your message with those where it really matters.

I would only be too glad to celebrate your achievement of true benefits for yourself and for other DL employees.
Really!

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

DL has delivered a superior employment experience

That is a classic quote for the ages.

WTF?

Measure that.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Glenn,

It’s actually quite easy to measure the “superior” work experience that DL has provided its employees – and I have asked Dawg repeatedly to do so but he obviously doesn’t want to admit the facts that very obviously demonstrate that DL has protected more payroll for more DL employees than any other union has done for its unionized personnel during BK – and has restored more pay since BK than any other US airline since BK.

I have asked him repeatedly to tell me the number of maintenance jobs at other carriers compared to those at DL and we can include AA’s cuts since they are well published. Those numbers clearly show that DL has a larger maintenance operation and has more maintenance personnel on its payroll collectively earning more money than any other airline in the Americas. Further, DL’s 9500 or so maintenance personnel today compares very favorable to what DL had pre-BK, esp. when you consider that NW decimated its maintenance operation and handed DL a comparatively tiny maintenance workforce, compliments of AMFA and their foolishly misguided strategies which resulted in 100% job losses for its members.

So, the offer is open to you to provide me data that shows how DL’s maintenance operation has NOT delivered more job protections and larger maintenance payroll than any other airline post BK.

Or you could just admit that DL really has delivered a superior employment experience for maintenance personnel… and then we can talk about the benefits for other DL workgroups separately, including the DL mainline jobs that will be created because of the expanded mainline fleet and reduced RJ flying.

 

[Kev3188]

...when you consider that NW decimated its maintenance operation and handed DL a comparatively tiny maintenance workforce, compliments of AMFA and their foolishly misguided strategies which resulted in 100% job losses for its members.

Oh boy.

Don't take the bait, GQ...

 

[WorldTraveler]

Oh boy.

Don't take the bait, GQ...

IOW, don't admit that WT is right.

A union that chose to walk off the job only to be replaced by mgmt would be considered anything but a failure?

 

[Kev3188]

No.

IOW, don't allow WT's intentional flamebait drag you in...

Labor taking a stand, even if it means walking away for good is sometimes necessary. Not everyone buys into your worldview of continuously bowing to capital. When one side is unreasonable, you don't keep coming back to "cooperate."

That's all I have to say on that. I'll be back when we're on a new tangent.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I would be the last one to tell you to give up and quit fighting for your cause.... but I am also wondering when the evidence of success will be apparent to see while at the same time challenging the notion that the legacy airline union-mgmt model has produced success for employees relative to other models, including DL's hybrid union/non-union model.

 

[blue collar]

I would be the last one to tell you to give up and quit fighting for your cause....

Did you forget to add that you would call them foolish and a failure when they did though?

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, because causes can become failures but people are not. People might, however, be unsuccessful or successful at what they choose to do.

I'd just like to see the evidence to show that the legacy airline labor-mgmt model works better than DL's when, among formerly BK airlines, it comes to number of positions of current employees retained and pay increases for them.

Surely, if the dominant legacy airline labor-mgmt works, there is some evidence to show for it where employees really want...in the pocketbook.

 

[blue collar]

no, because causes can become failures but people are not. People might, however, be unsuccessful or successful at what they choose to do.

I'd just like to see the evidence to show that the legacy airline labor-mgmt model works better than DL's when, among formerly BK airlines, it comes to number of positions of current employees retained and pay increases for them.

Surely, if the dominant legacy airline labor-mgmt works, there is some evidence to show for it where employees really want...in the pocketbook.

You only want evidence to support your claim, that is the only 'acceptable' evidence to you. You have 2 current DL employees telling you things that you choose not to hear. I work with ~10 ex DL (pmdl), and they paint a picture the same as I see here. The bottom line? If Ma Delta wants it a certain way, then that's the way it will be. The employees have no recourse.

The 'whole truth' that you tell has very big blinders on. Try taking them off every once and a while to see things for what they really are

 

[WorldTraveler]

....I didn't say DL is a panacea.... I have simply said that DL's model has done a better job of retaining jobs and increasing pay post BK than any other legacy carrier's contentious traditional labor model.
Further, the 10 people you have cited either have not believed that a union could change the situation or else they can't find a majority of DL employees who agree with them that is a necessary step.

It is that simple... quit trying to pin on my that I think every DL employee is happy and doesn't want to see things differently.

In the absence of enough employees who are willing to vote in unions, those employees will have to figure out how to work within the system that exists and which is generating better financial benefits for DL employees as a group than are other airlines.

I suspect also when earnings are released next week and the $175 million in profit sharing hits home, that a lot of people who might otherwise have something to complain about will suck it up. An average of more than $2000 per employee for just one quarter is nothing to sneeze at. The only other airline that has reported financial results for the quarter that include profit sharing was WN and their profit sharing for the quarter amounts to less than 1/3 of what DL employees will pocket.

 

[Kev3188]

Did you forget to add that you would call them foolish and a failure when they did though?

Funny how that works, isn't it?

I often wonder how people can handle that sort of cognitive dissonance...

 

[737823]

I can answer these as someone that doesn't work in the industry but knows from reading these forums and being a frequent traveler:

How many unionized carriers have a RR program?

The IAM supported, facilitated, and encouraged RR at Hawaiian Airlines. Tim has posted about it before but here is the link to their CBA articles 26.2-26.8. To boot RRs do not count toward the PT cap, must be full dues paying IAM members, receive no benefits besides flight passes, and top out at $10/hour.

http://www.iam141.or...014clerical.pdf

So yes, at least one unionized carrier has RR. Also, how much better is UAL's part time cross training ramp/CS that tops out $10.73/hour than RR?

How many unionized carriers did such a move, such a dump of employees, with out being told to by a BK judge?

Hasn't AA been contracting out certain cities long before the 11/29/2011 filing? PDX as an examples, sees all AA mainline but has had third party handling for years. I'm sure there are more. I know HPN has contracted workers and a few years back was mainline 738s and CRJs to ORD, now all E145s but was contracted out with mainline.

Josh

 

[737823]

Sorry to be remedial on something from 20+ years back but can someone enlighten me on leadership 7.5 at DL?

Is this a good summary?

Delta Air Lines: From Clear Skies to Crash Landing
In the 1970s and 1980s, Delta Air Lines became the premier U.S. airline
for customer service with a culture of “southern hospitality” and employees
who went above and beyond the call of duty. The company’s human resource
strategy helped build the skills, motivation and opportunities for employees
to deliver great customer service, and that allowed Delta to attract business
travelers who paid premium prices for travel. Delta’s success shows just how
important HR strategy can be, especially in its impact on company performance.

But by the 1990s, things were
changing. Major business trends
altered the competitive climate, and
HR strategy had to change too. In
1994, after two straight years of record
financial losses, CEO Ron Allen rolled
out a new strategy called “Leadership
7.5.” Allen aimed to reduce Delta’s cost
per available seat mile (CASM) from
more than 10 cents to 7.5 cents, which
would match that of major competitor
Southwest Airlines. Along with a
new business strategy came a massive
transformation of Delta’s HR strategy.
In Delta’s new HR strategy:
• Training dollars were cut.
• Experienced employees were laid
off and replaced with contingent
employees.
• Delta put fewer flight attendants on
each flight and fewer mechanics at
the gates.
• Pay was frozen or cut for just about
all employee groups.

http://www.shrm.org/about/foundation/products/Documents/HR%20Strategy%20EPG-%20Final%20Online.pdf

Josh