Delta Air Lines to Leave Trade Association in April 2016

[WorldTraveler]

knowing that I irritate the crap out of you provides all of the motivation I need to stick around.

psst.... you still haven't figured out that if you want to make a production out of my presence, I can make sure you get a full 3 act presentation.

and your analogy falls apart since these boards are hardly the bastion of hand holding on a whole lot of issues about which I only sit back and laugh....

plus, DL is likely to be even noisier speaking on its own than as part of the industry group think.

 

[Kev3188]

Harumph!

 

[WorldTraveler]

indeed.

and for those who want to focus on the topic instead of the participants, I offer this article which notes that DL is used to being alone and has succeeded by not participating in groupthink.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/13314686/1/delta-alone-as-usual-questions-push-to-privatize-air-traffic-control.html

and DL's position on modernizing the ATC system within the FAA rather than trying to privatize and still modernize questions who is really willing to work within the established system and who is copping out.

"Delta's Dickson said it is important to remember that the U.S. ATC system is the biggest and most complex ATC system in the world, and yet it is also "more efficient and more cost effective for taxpayers and our customers than any system we have seen."

He said privatization would not address the system's structural issues, including air space configuration and congestion in the Northeast, the key trouble spot.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

 
Nobody on these boards is claiming that DL is not running a world-class operation. The numbers speak for themselves, whether they are operational or financial.
 
What you can't seem to come to admit is that some decisions / steps that DL is making may not be either the best ones. 
It is you that attacks people when they have a dissenting opinion on a DL issue.
 
Sadly, you will go to any level, including making up things, to defend DL.
Idolatry at it's best.
Even worse, you become unhinged when people call you out - either on outright lies, manipulated statistics, faulty math.
 
And that is the Whole Truth.

 

[WorldTraveler]

The proof of whether DL made the right decision will be obvious.

what you and others won't admit is that there have been a chorus of dissenting voice against DL's actions in the past only for the evidence to clearly show that DL made the right decision.

You are just one of a number of people that have tried to paint DL's decision regarding the refinery to have been wrong and yet DL has saved hundreds of millions of dollars in fuel costs and the refinery is profitable.

others have criticized DL's relationship with its partners and yet DL has the highest average fares in the US industry. you don't generate that kind of revenue by doing what is NOT in your best interest.

the list goes on and on.

There is an institutional bias against DL on internet chat forums and yet the evidence is overwhelming that DL manages to outsmart and outperform its competition.

If this issue proves to be different, then the evidence will show it.

but hand-wringing that DL MIGHT fail is nothing but fear mongering that isn't supported by any evidence.

The whole truth is that DL has a track record of doing what has turned out to be in its best interests far better than any other airline in the US industry over the past 5 years.

 

[robbedagain]

Its truly ashame what has become of these boards thanks to one particular poster   that is one darn good reason to have him on ignore   

 

[Kev3188]

There is an institutional bias against DL on internet chat forums...

This is absolutely false.

In my experience, is no more love/hate for DL than there is for any other carrier. What there is a lot of is blowback against the people that act like goddamn Amway salesmen when talking about DL.

As far as leaving A4A, I still think it's a bad move. Just my opinion. If I'm right, cool. If I'm wrong, that's fine too.

 

[WorldTraveler]

You would have to live under a rock not to realize that DL generates far more emotion - both negative and positive - in not just social media but also in the traditional media.

There are a chorus of people who make it their career to find everything that is wrong with DL even when it is clear DL has made solid business decisions.

thank you for couching your opinion about DL in the A4A as an opinion because that is what it is.

What is very clear is that DL has a track record of doing things successfully that other carriers can't make work or don't try.

While NW did some pretty unconventional things on its own like telling its employees how to successfully dumpster dive, NW and DL do share a common ability to use older aircraft. The general practice in the industry is to retire aircraft or at fleet at 20 years at most and replace them with new generation aircraft.

DL clearly has taken the art of operating older level to a higher level but the commonality is there on that subject.

To argue that DL is making a mistake by NOT choosing to do something that the rest has accepted as the status quo - sitting around a table and eliminating any dissenting opinion - says more about the rest of the industry than about DL.

and it remains all the more puzzling that someone like you who prides himself in being a dissenting voice on issues that the majority of DL employee agree on find it so bad that DL itself is the dissenting voice that you wish you could be to the same degree of success that DL has in being a dissenting voice.

 

[Kev3188]

Cool story.

 

[WorldTraveler]

glad you like it.

Meanwhile, DL continues to have a unique culture which, while evolved somewhat is not to the liking of a lot of people. you have indicated before your dissonance with the DL culture... and that is quite ok.

On areas of taste, we can have opinions.

On areas that are backed by fact and evidence, there has to be a recognition that DL is achieving the goals it as a corporation is supposed to do as good or better than its peers.

whatever "edginess" or uniqueness in its approach to issues has to be considered in light of DL's track record in the industry.

If DL's decision to pull out of A4A results in verifiable harm to the company or its stakeholders, then it is valid to note those repercussions and discuss them.

Until then, the bias has to be that DL has made some pretty edgy calls on major issues before and ended up far better than a whole lot of people here or elsewhere believed they ever could.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

There are a chorus of people who make it their career to find everything that is wrong with DL even when it is clear DL has made solid business decisions.

Solid business decisions.  Let's review some:  
Song? 
How about overpaying for PA because DL did nothing while UA and AA built their international networks? 
What about DL being so late in starting electronic ticketing? 
Valujet/Airtran establishing themselves in ATL unabated? 
 
So are these valid criticisms of some of the mistakes DL has made or it is emotion?
I know you will find many reasons to defend all those strategic business decisions that I've listed, but that is what idolatry does to one's mental horsepower.  You've become a low-information poster regurgitating everything the P.R. office puts out.
Spin away.
 
 

What is very clear is that DL has a track record of doing things successfully that other carriers can't make work or don't try.

 
Leadership 7.5?
 
 
 

While NW did some pretty unconventional things on its own like telling its employees how to successfully dumpster dive,

That's right Kev, you're gonna take that compliment and like it!

 

[WorldTraveler]

wow.... so appointed you a financial analyst that is qualified to determine the success of DL's PA acquisition or Song.

psst. DL is the largest airline at JFK and the largest across the Atlantic based on actual DOT data.


Neither of those could be possible without the PA acquisition.

you batted out yet again in your zeal to try to find something for which you can smear DL.

In the meantime, DL is pulling its service from DXB because it says it can't make money.

 

[700UW]

But JetBlue carries more passengers at JFK than DL

Throw out some more qualifiers (Atlantic).

How can that be since DL doesn't have the feed from Europe to coonecf passengers?

 

[WorldTraveler]

Cool story but it isn't true.

Looks like someone is fabricating things again.

this is not an opinion question.

It is factually based.

DL and its regional carriers board more passengers at JFK AND LGA than any other carrier.

and DL has grown its presence at LGA and JFK.

on a consolidated basis over the past several years, DL's closest NYC competitor is smAAler than they were while DL has grown.

and yet AA jumped on TW which also had a JFK hub.

hmmm.

DL acquired PA and grew in NYC. AA acquired TW and shrunk in NYC.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Neither of those could be possible without the PA acquisition.

 
How's that FRA hub?
Oh, I forgot, outside of FRA, DL is the largest US airline in Germany.  Got it.
 
It's too bad you don't have the mental horsepower to grasp that given DL struck out in obtaining the PA slots at LHR, it had no choice but to pony up $500 million for the rest of the European routes ...  .... ... but psst ... ... ... even at that price it didn't get MIA-Paris/London.  Ouch!
Then another $100 million poured into the left-over Carribean routes centered  PA which was losing $3 million per day.  Winner!
 
If you weren't so blinded by idolatry, you would realize that the PA Shuttle was probably the best DL got from PA in NY.  Not the JFK hub which remained unprofitable for probably 20 years or the 3rd world bus station known as Worldport.
 
Spin away!