Delta exits LAX-LHR

[WorldTraveler]

no, I haven't been proven wrong.

You and others have tried to prove me wrong - and it is perfectly ok if you actually bring the facts to do so - but you collectively haven't.

Let me know where you or others have provided evidence that either of those two principles are wrong.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

second, AA is still in ORD-DUS but it, to few people's surprise, gets average fares that are lower than UA/LH on the same route.

 
Nice deflection, as usual, to a different topic.
 

 
 
You prophesied that AA would not last in ORD-DUS for too long.
Surprise surprise, you were W R O N G!
 
BTW:  speaking of deflections to average fares, when somebody points out that carrier(s) obtain higher average fares that DL on certain routes, the resident DL fankid cheerleader is quick to come up with half-a-dozen excuses as to why average fare is not a good metric to use.  Now, surprise, surprise, all of a sudden it is.
Can you say double standards?
 

 
Spin away!

 

[WorldTraveler]

it isn't to forget out that if you cut capacity low enough, you can force prices higher.

and the converse is that if you add enough capacity to a market where you are not strong, you can survive by discounting. Given that AA has added lots of capacity to competitive markets in NYC and ORD as well as to Asia and has obtained lower fares in the process, then the economic principles are fully working and on full display. AA is still in ORD-DUS but it is getting fares that are below average for its own network as well as peers on comparable routes. Airline profitability is not about just sticking with a route for years even when the returns are not coming in as strong as predicted or hoped.

and on that note, the DOJ is investigating some US airlines under the premise that slow growth has been coordinated in order to force fares up. Good thing DL has been the most aggressively growing legacy carrier.

and apart from the DOJ or collusion, it is basic economics that you can force fares up by reducing capacity - which is the premise of what AA tried to do on the JFK transcons - while DL has been adding capacity that other carriers have cut - and increasing revenues in the process.

No, you haven't proven anything and there is no double standard. There are basic economic principles that are at work which DL is using to grow its presence while you think that AA's strategy of reducing capacity using a niche market strategy would work - and it is not.

 

[eolesen]

Another fine example of "I can't win an argument so I'll just throw up old arguments on other tangents hoping something will stick."

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

i rest my case.
 

Nice deflection, as usual, to a different topic.
 
<snip>.
 
Spin away!

 

it isn't to forget ..................

and the converse is that ...............................

and on that note, ............................................

and apart from the DOJ or collusion, it is basic economics that ....................................

No, you haven't proven anything and .......................................................

 

 

[diamondcutter]

Another fine example of "I can't win an argument so I'll just throw up old arguments on other tangents hoping something will stick."

Exactly E, everyone is onto him therefore his diatribes are meaningless! He no longer has any credibility here and has turned into a totally train wreck. Let's all look at him for what he is , a laughing stock of the forum .

 

[USFlyer]

Exactly E, everyone is onto him therefore his diatribes are meaningless! He no longer has any credibility here and has turned into a totally train wreck. Let's all look at him for what he is , a laughing stock of the forum .

 
Everyone "debating" with him only adds fuel to the fire.  Just put him on ignore.  He'll go away if people stop engaging with him.

 

[LDVAviation]

Iv heard the same thing ...they wanted to get rid of him!!!!

 
How can that be?  He foresaw everything that has happened in the industry over the last 10 years, including Delta's forcing JAL out of business.  
 
Oh wait.  LMAO!

 

[WorldTraveler]

iow, you and others can't debate the demonstratable fact that DL has done a better job of pushing into key AA markets including in Latin America and LHR than AA has done in key DL markets.

Further, AA DOES have a niche market strategy in NYC - other AA fans on here have said as much - and yet they keep thinking that AA's presence in NYC will be an exception to the long-standing principles of airline economics that the largest carriers enjoy a revenue premium due to their size while AA has shrunk its presence in the face of increased competition from B6, DL, and UA.

further, AA's JFK transcon strategy is a niche market strategy that was created before B6 started its Mint service which has dramatically reduced fares in the premium cabin while DL and B6 particularly have increased capacity in the entire NYC transcon market.

So, AA's fundamental principles of seeking a niche position in the JFK transcon markets is fundamentally flawed and UA's departure from the JFK transcons should raise concerns about the viability of AA's strategy.

add in that AA has an aircraft strategy that uniquely uses one aircraft configuration for 2 markets that are rapidly changing and don't work even in other transcon markets, and it should be clear that AA's strategy is vulnerable to competitors.

so, spare us the personal attacks and just deal with the market-based facts and analysis.

or admit that someone understands the industry and can see where it is going better than others who post here.

 

[jcw]

Can we say unhinged

 

[WorldTraveler]

you can if you want but it would better if you just said you don't agree and then provide some RATIONAL explanation of why my theories are wrong.

I know that it would require you to think instead of emote but the issue is at its core one of rationality and economics.

If you are right and I am wrong, it shouldn't be hard for you to prove it.

 

[MAH4546]

Lufthansa is discontinuing ORDDUS this fall. How's that higher fare working out for it?

Back to the topic, nobody wants to fly Delta between LA and Heathrow. Why?

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Oh well look at this, another classic example of trying to portray DL as holy (pssst did you know idolatry is a sin?). 
 

and on that note, the DOJ is investigating some US airlines under the premise that slow growth has been coordinated in order to force fares up. Good thing DL has been the most aggressively growing legacy carrier.

 
From the article:  "Representatives from Delta Air Lines, Southwest Airlines, American Airlines and United Airlines confirmed they were among those being investigated and said they were complying with Justice Department requests."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/doj-investigating-potential-airline-collusion/2015/07/01/42d99102-201c-11e5-aeb9-a411a84c9d55_story.html
 
Spin your way out of this.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Back to the topic, nobody wants to fly Delta between LA and Heathrow. Why?

 

 

[WorldTraveler]

Lufthansa is discontinuing ORDDUS this fall. How's that higher fare working out for it?

Back to the topic, nobody wants to fly Delta between LA and Heathrow. Why?

just because LH is discontinuing the route now doesn't change that AA has underperformed UA on its own routes or with its JV partners in most ORD int'l markets?

You do realize that UA gets a higher average fare than AA even in the ORD-LHR market on an annual basis? AA/BA carry more passengers but UA gets a higher average fare.

as to the DOJ investigation, there is a separate thread on it, which is appropriate since, like the DAL discussion, it involves multiple airlines.

as to the assertion of nobody wanting to fly DL from LAX to LHR, that is patently false. DOT statistics show that in the first quarter that DL operated the route, it got half of the local market share that AA and UA had - which is actually pretty similar - at average fares that were fairly close to UA's but below UA's..... in the LAX-LHR market, DL solidly came in with average fares and share comparable to its competitors.

but hey, it is far easier to throw out inaccurate information including to make charges of DL not succeeding when it is clear that DL simply reallocated int'l capacity to the domestic system