Delta May Ask The Ch11 Court To
- Thread starter robbedagain
- Start date
luv2fly
Veteran
Why, because he is right. What did you give up Vike? How did DL justify paying 60k a year to non- specialized labor like flight attendants? I think you are the one feeling sorry for yourself. Your job was one the the highest overpaid positions in the industry for your required specialty skills or lack thereof. :down:
DL is in the shape it is in now because of the pilots? WT, that statement qaulifies as the biggest pile of horse excrement that I have heard you spew to date.
Once again, you reference the judges beliefs. Once again, are you baseing your assertions on your professional legal opinion? Why exactly are your qualifications WT? Please bless us with more of your DL sunshine. If you would like to continue your anti-pilot rhetoric with me via PM, please feel free.
hmmm, we gave 32% in pay last year and got benefit cuts, pref bidding, etc too.
By the way, I don't feel sorry for myself. Far from it. My self esteem and pride has never been higher. Thats why I will not bend over for GG to shove it up my a$$. I am worth more than what Delta is offering and I deserve to be treated better than Delta wants to treat me. I am willing to take reasonable cuts to help save the airline, but I will not let them have their way with me.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #49
How would it be if Delta had or has been prepared for a strike readying with replacement pilots who are trained similar to the NWA mechanics?
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
sorry it's getting ugly, luv, but I believe DALPA held onto the golden calf just a little too long. If you don't think that DL would be a significantly different airline today if the pilots had first contributed a 21 months ago instead of just 12, then you are sorely out of touch w/ reality. And if you recall, DL's ask 24 months ago was considerably less than what it ended up getting 12 months ago and is going to get in round 2 - this time w/ the judge's blessing. And you can deny that she has a vendetta on the pilots but I think you will quickly see that she is more than willing to chop your salaries down much, much farther.
I hate to see anyone get their pay cut in any business but DALPA was in complete denial about the severity of DL's situation and their foot dragging has only allowed the situation to go from bad to worse. No, the pilots aren't solely the reason for DL's demise and they won't be the sole contributor to a turnaround plan but there is also no doubt that DALPA's refusal to work w/ DL for so long pushed the company into a corner so deep that recovery demands deep cuts from everyone and the bankruptcy process puts the leverage in the company's hand - and they will use it mercilessly and in so doing unwind a decade's long tradition of DL's pilots being one of the best paid groups in the business.
And how much comes out of your check for union dues each month?
I hate to see anyone get their pay cut in any business but DALPA was in complete denial about the severity of DL's situation and their foot dragging has only allowed the situation to go from bad to worse. No, the pilots aren't solely the reason for DL's demise and they won't be the sole contributor to a turnaround plan but there is also no doubt that DALPA's refusal to work w/ DL for so long pushed the company into a corner so deep that recovery demands deep cuts from everyone and the bankruptcy process puts the leverage in the company's hand - and they will use it mercilessly and in so doing unwind a decade's long tradition of DL's pilots being one of the best paid groups in the business.
And how much comes out of your check for union dues each month?
I'm not saying that we made more than we should've, but you were the ones that were head and shoulders above the industry average. We were in the upper half..
Lets try this again. We as a group were blessed with great wages and benefits for many years. But we were in the upper half of the industry average. You were not. Contract 2000 was way above the industry average. Even you can't dispute that..I'm not saying that we made more than we should've, but you were the ones that were head and shoulders above the industry average. We were in the upper half..
Know what, to a certain extent I agree with you. DALPA was in denial. On the other hand, nothing management did would lead you to believe things were as bad as they were. They did not cut other employees pay, they did not cut management pay, they did not start making other cuts in the business, or getting on with an out of court restructuring. No, for a long time the only cut they wanted to make was with pilot pay. If they had pressed on with getting the rest of the companies costs in line, the pilots would have jumped on board much, much sooner. But, kinda hard to make that jump when the only segment of the company being targeted is your group.
As I recall, they did make a cut in pay to another group. I remember that right after the FA's voted down the AFA in 2002, they were rewarded with a cut in pay.
This is like reading the U and UAL board all over again. I think DAL pilots should look at U and UAL. I don’t think it will be much different as for scare tactics about a strike well lets just say we have seen it all before.
Your training doesn’t allow you to just go out and get another job paying what you got paid or for what you’re going to make for that matter.
I do believe that all airline employees should stand together and have massive walk out but that is just a dream.
Good luck to you it is a nasty place to be.
Don’t forget they will be asking the judge for money for bonus’s so they can keep their top managers all the while axing your pay.
Your training doesn’t allow you to just go out and get another job paying what you got paid or for what you’re going to make for that matter.
I do believe that all airline employees should stand together and have massive walk out but that is just a dream.
Good luck to you it is a nasty place to be.
Don’t forget they will be asking the judge for money for bonus’s so they can keep their top managers all the while axing your pay.
That's not totally true. Between 2001 and 2003, DL management identified and implemented almost $1.5 Billion in cuts. Some of these cuts came in the form of reduced headcount and some came in the form of service cuts. Additionally, almost all the non-contract workers had their pay frozen while the pilots kept getting raises. This of course made the pilots pay stand out even more so.
I'm not saying the cuts management made were good enough....they were clearly inadequate. But management was trying to trim down DL's costs, BEFORE they came to the pilots in 2003.
Not a chance. DALPA made it very clear they would not proactively help the company. The only way DALPA would give concessions was either 1) traditional section 6 bargaining when the contract expired OR 2) when DL was on the verge of collapse (ie a CH11 filing). DALPA eventually chose option B, but it was too late.
Even if DL had slashed the pay of other groups back in 2003 and cut other costs, DALPA's response would have been "great you got cuts from those folks, so you don't need cuts from us."
Let me quantify...$129M loss over three months (and these are the Sept #'s...just wait until the new quarter is released in the next few days!) That adds up to 516M in a year. While I agree that overcapacity is an issue in this industry, one airline alone cannot solve it. Although I guess I'll eat my words if the pilots decide to strike b/c that would end DL (all through selfishness) and actually create a need for capacity. Not to mention so many more employees out on the streets b/c of one group's greed.
Off this topic, can I just ask why your handle is "LUV2fly" if you are a DL pilot? I would have thought you were WN.
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
- 2,779
Major airline pilot stikes are usually brief because they can not be quickly replaced and when they strike, the airline shuts down. Airline execs don't like the company losing that much money even for a short time.
I'm not saying that we made more than we should've, but you were the ones that were head and shoulders above the industry average. We were in the upper half..
Lets try this again. We as a group were blessed with great wages and benefits for many years. But we were in the upper half of the industry average. You were not. Contract 2000 was way above the industry average. Even you can't dispute that..
Know what, I don't dispute that. And I thought the pay cuts we took last year were fair. And I am not saying we should not take more cuts now. But what the company is proposing goes too far. Period. I am willing to address fair paycuts.
I'm a bit confused.
Let's see.
Delta has but one union on the property. ONE.
US Airways about a million..ok i overstate. lol
US managements defense in chapter 11 was that labor made too much money. High labor cost...high labor cost..gotta get it down...not enough time to negotiate..enforce paycuts.
Delta..ability to slash and burn any group they feel except for the pilots. Why did DAL allow things to get as bad as they did when they had but ONE...that's ONE union to deal with?
There is NO WAY all the financial ills can be centered around the pilots. BTW, I am not a pilot so I have no ax to grind in standing up for them.
It appears to me that the management team of DAL had their heads in the sand and that sand was located on the river DENIAL. How many warning were put out their by almost every analyst that DAL needed to do something? I think all of us out side DAL saw this one coming.
The wonderful employees of Delta should be outraged that their management let things get to where they are. Yes, our problems at US started way before 9/11 and we would have gone done the ch. 11 road regardless, but DAL? One of the most respected airlines/companies in the USA AND loyal workforce and this is what the DAL management team does?
I feel badly for you guys. All the years of payraises to prevent more unions from invading the property has come back to bite everyone on the butt.
The question is: Is the DELTA loyalty gone? Is it safe to say there will not be another "SPIRIT OF DELTA" airplane purchased by the employees? I hope not.
Regardless, I hope the very best to all of you. Hang in there.
Let's see.
Delta has but one union on the property. ONE.
US Airways about a million..ok i overstate. lol
US managements defense in chapter 11 was that labor made too much money. High labor cost...high labor cost..gotta get it down...not enough time to negotiate..enforce paycuts.
Delta..ability to slash and burn any group they feel except for the pilots. Why did DAL allow things to get as bad as they did when they had but ONE...that's ONE union to deal with?
There is NO WAY all the financial ills can be centered around the pilots. BTW, I am not a pilot so I have no ax to grind in standing up for them.
It appears to me that the management team of DAL had their heads in the sand and that sand was located on the river DENIAL. How many warning were put out their by almost every analyst that DAL needed to do something? I think all of us out side DAL saw this one coming.
The wonderful employees of Delta should be outraged that their management let things get to where they are. Yes, our problems at US started way before 9/11 and we would have gone done the ch. 11 road regardless, but DAL? One of the most respected airlines/companies in the USA AND loyal workforce and this is what the DAL management team does?
I feel badly for you guys. All the years of payraises to prevent more unions from invading the property has come back to bite everyone on the butt.
The question is: Is the DELTA loyalty gone? Is it safe to say there will not be another "SPIRIT OF DELTA" airplane purchased by the employees? I hope not.
Regardless, I hope the very best to all of you. Hang in there.
